I refer back to subject.

How would you define dumbass?

wow am i missing something???? i haven't really been reading too many posts lately, is there one in specific that everyone is fired up about???

or just... normal everyday canuckness??? (which can be good or bad, depending on who you are)

Quick answer: the "How Rich are you" subject. Recomendation: don't bother unless you have nothing else fruitful to occupy yourself with.

Okay, in my opinion, this is totally unappropriate. I know this has the potential to turn into another censorship/free speech argument, but I think this subject is out of line. I know there are arguments going on in other posts over actual issues, but a personal attack like this, whether deserved or not, has no point. This is just worthless name calling that is only going to stir up more fighting and resentment on this board. If you have a problem with someone, why not PM them or bring it up in a more appropriate manner than just posting it here to create even more bickering? Remember about a week ago when "whatsthereason" was bashing camp and attacking all of us for working there? This can be likened to that- name calling and accusations with no reasoning or point.

grow up already

See, GSCounselor is right. That is 100% inappropriate for this message board setting. It ranks right up there with Canuck's insults towards freaky. Can't we just keep it clean folks?

Shoot, I mean I go to camp for an Admin meeting and you guys get all fired up about an anti american "Loaded" Canuck comment.


For the Reccord, Canuck is NOT a DUMB*%# in my mind. Maybe a HOSER, not a dumb*$@ tho...

yea and the lanugage, my virgin ears, er eyes...

for someone who said "i'm out", they are doing a lot of posting

Well I agree my post is immature, but I feel many post on this board are very ignorant and dumb. So instead of, like many people, of having the match of the minds, which really don't get to the point of the subject, I just wrote it out in a to the point, direct way. I was not trying to have people post angerly to this post. I just feel my post is as similar to others who post on here and as valid.

hey off subject... but one of my campers cussed in the company of two other campers... and the one was all WHOA MY VIRGIN EARS!!!! and then the other camper was all... what's a virgin??? that would be about the time i stepped in and stopped THAT convo cold...

LOL. :-D

I don't think Canuck is a dumbass. He/she is probably pretty smart, probably too smart for his/her own good.

If I'm to be honest here I do think that Canuck is: rude, insensitive, sarcastic, mean, condescending, antagonistic, closed-minded, and judgemental in regards to the things that he/she writes on this board. He/she may be a completely different person in person...possibly even a person that I would be friends with at camp and would enjoy those fun, heated camp debates with.

I have had many negative run-ins with Canuck over the years on this board and some of the things he have said have been so inappropriately personal and mean that it has almost kept me from posting here on a regular basis.

There is a difference between having friendly discussions and arguing with people just to prove your intellectual superiority.

I think this board is some sort of proving ground for Canuck...that he/she thinks that it is some sort of battle of the wits, that he/she must win at all costs...even if he/she must resort to personal attacks.

In my opinion the negative interactions with Canuck outweight the positive interactions overwhelmingly.

Can someone please explain to me the usefulness of this thread? I am having a hard time seeing what any of us are going to learn from flaming someone. If he/she says something inflamitory, why not try ignoring them, instead of acting like a baby? Now, can we go back to acting like counselors and less like middle school kids?

:sighs: Ok, for what it's worth, here's my $0.03 (you know, inflation)...anyways

first and foremost, I'm saddenend to see how the board has just erupted in such open hostility in the past few days. I went away to camp for a visit and I was excited to come back and talk camp-talk with you guys and here it is, open hostility and all these polls.....and the title of this thread?? Totally inappropriate, IMO.....
this board has always been a board that I've looked forward to reading, because everyone has almost always been so supportive and happy and helpful...it's like a camp family on the web and that's awesome. This open hostility and inappropriate name-calling is ripping the board apart, and that's not cool.....

Secondly, we are a country founded on the right to free speech. Granted, free speech should be handled with tact, and in that respect, I think that Canuck is in the wrong, but those that respond back with such low name-calling is just as wrong. We don't fight ignorance with ignorance, or names with names.....We should know that by now, for the most part, we are all adults...I had Brownies at camp last summer that handled confrontation and problems better than some of the people I've seen here....

Lastly, I am an American, and I am proud to be an American, and when anti-American stuff is done, or said, or such, it does bother me, but I don't go out and call someone names right back....we aren't perfect, and IMO, anyone that thinks we as a country are perfect is ignorant. Sorry, but it's true (IMO). Having spent time overseas and out of the country, living as a native of the country I was in (it was an exchange program) I could walk down the street and pick out the Americans before they ever opened their mouths. We are arrogant, hypocritical and ignorant (at times, and some people) for example, we sit and talk about how people coming to this country should speak english (people visiting or living here) but then we go to other countries and expect them to speak English for us. If you are so big about speaking English in America, you should practice what you preach when you visit other countries. I've seen Americans walk down the street, cutting people off, taking way too much space (physically or with their things) and basically being rude beyond comparison. It was times like that when I was happy with the fact that I could speak the language of the country I was in, so then I wasn't identified with the "rude Americans". Our country, as a country has done some incredible things, and has many reasons to be proud. My father fought in the Navy, as did his father. I've got close high school friends that are serving in the service as we speak, and know of many others that are fighting for our country and that is an incredible sacrifice they are making. I am proud of the fact that I am a citizen of a country with such outstanding and giving people that they'd give their lives for the lives of people they'd never know. I appreciate the fact that I have many liberties that I wouldn't otherwise have, and for that I am grateful, but I'm not blind to the problems that we have, and although it hurts me when people point them out in such tactless ways, I know that the facts are simple, we aren't perfect. I just like to respond in more productive ways, such as educating people as to how we're seeing in other countries, what we do that makes us seem so bad, and what we can do to fix the situation.

I appreciate the fact that Canuck has brought some issues to light, just not in the manner that they were. However, I just wish that some people here would have more tact to respond in better ways. I respect the opinions of almost everyone on this board, whether I agree with them or not. I see you all as my extended camp family and my friends and I have a respect for you and your opinions. However I may disagree with your actions....

My mom used to say to me, and it's stuck with me a long time, "I don't always have to like you, but I will always love you"

Just my (long-winded) $0.03
..::Mandie::..

Mandie, thanks for the support. I think a lot of the problem might be that some don't feel I'm qualified to be critical because I am not American - but it's appropriate for Yanks to criticize themselves.

Guys, you can call it a stereotype if you want - but I've done some travelling, and many of the things Madie is saying actually do occur.

I think we found out who really is whatsthereason Anyway folks lets stop trying to get personal and yes we don't have to read these topics but still.

Nope, it wasn't me. Stan should be able to confirm that.

Oh, I didn't think it was you Canuck. Refer back to the first post of this topic.

Canuck, youre welcome, but can you just do me a tiny favor and try a little more tact when you make said comments, because that did bother me a bit, much as it did the others...

Again, the problem isn't that you criticize America Canuck- it's simply that you do it constantly, with never a positive thing to say about it. Think of it this way; would you appreciate it if somebody started criticizing Judaism on a regular basis? I have a feeling if I did you'd be complaining as much if not more than those of us that are Americans and sick of hearing about what you think is wrong with us.

Boomy, everyone else has moved on - why can't you?

so... i'm now up to date.

i've read all the posts and the replies, i've seen everyone's reactions, and i must say...

i think we're all a bit immature.

also. canuck is not a dumbass. he has, in the past, presented plenty of valid, logical good arguments, and also provided many good pointers and presented his opinions well. He may have gone a bit overboard on the anti-american thing for soem people's tastes, or some people may just be too sensitive... it doesn't matter. i think we should let it all blow over, calm down, and remember that camp is only 2 months away!!!!

On the contrary...I don't think it's immature to say something when somebody is bothering you. This is a public form...opinions are going to be communicated publicly. It's better to get it out in the open than to hold it all in. And, if many other people on the board feel the same way then there must be some validity to the feelings.

I think there is a reason for this recent outburst of "hostility" on this board and that is because the majority of people on this board have been VERY patient with Canuck and they have been holding it in. Now it's coming out and it's coming out in full force.

I've been thinking about something else, as well. I think my biggest problem with Canuck is that he/she seems to derive some sort of pleasure out of causing a rise out of people. He/she seems to enjoy seeing people get upset through their writing. Getting pleasure from others' pain is just wrong and I honestly think that is a strong motivation for many of the derogatory remarks that Canuck posts on this board.

I dont think that canuck is at all a dumba** He's prestented many logical points. Sure, he gets a fired up discussion going sometimes, but we all have our right to say what we want. Sure, he could do it more tactfully, but it's who he is. So, lets all just drop it, he adds some character to our message board.
~Jiff

If you define majority as Boomis, Golyek, and Northwoods, then I would agree.

Along with rights comes responsibilities...

what does "IMO" stand for?

No, of course you can say what you feel, i don't think that's immature at all... i just think that it's gone a bit far, that's all. Everyone has a right to express themselves but it has gone a bit far.

just my opinion.

and IMO stands for in my opinion, ct2004

No, I define a majority as the 70% of posters on this board who voted they were tired of your anti-Americanism. And the sad thing is, you still don't get it.

Seems like it's you that doesn't get it. Of course the people here wouldn't want to here about the problems of America - they're American, aren't they? That doesn't make my comments wrong (a very strong word indeed). You may notice that the only people as outspoken about my crimes are you, Golyek, and Northwoods. You may also realize that this would have died down ages ago if you would have just stopped pressing your point. What we need, Boomis, is one of those "I'm going to be the mature one and not respond" posts, as opposed to another predictable "I can't believe he doesn't get it" posts. I would be the mature one, but since it's my name being dragged through the mud, I really can't do that.

Ah, I see, we are supposed to allow you free reign to make comments that we disagree with, in a tone that is troubling (to some of us), just because we're supposed to be the bigger people. It's funny how you are claiming to have your name dragged around, yet you were the one who started name calling. See, as an individual you feel that your name is being dragged around. As an American and as someone who sees the sacrifice and good of Americans, I feel that our name and reputation is being dragged around.

The thing is that I have no problem hearing about the problems of America and discussing them. You, unfortunately, are being passive aggressive in your America bashing and aren't being substantive about the things that you'd like to discuss. What I find really humorous is that every time I counter what you have to say with a few points, you take the one point that you can somewhat rebut (ignore the other points) and then you stretch what has been said and change the meaning. I'm used to it as it's a common tactic used in the world of usenet newsgroups.

If you have something to say and are willing to debate it in regards to your feelings about America and Americans say it, but only if you are willing to have a real discussion about it. If you are going to change people's meanings and not respond to their substantive points, then move on and cut the America bashing.

Northwoods, I honestly haven't seen much substance from you either. All you do is yell and scream about how I'm America-bashing and that it's inappropriate for me to be doing here. (I bet you're lots of fun at camp). I'm quite capable of having a substantive conversation, but just because you take pot-shots such as saying "Canuck, you're using a tactic I see all the time on Newsgroups" and "Canuck, you ignore all the good points I make" does not mean you aren't doing the same thing.

Once again, this whole thing would have stopped if the three of you would have just let it all go. But instead, you felt the need to defend your country against tyrants such as Canuch....and look what happened.

Canuck, do you read what people are posting. Hey, you are free to say that I haven't posted anything of substance, but admist all the "yelling" that I apparently have done, I made the following points, all of which I feel are valid and worth discussing, but you did not respond to them. If you don't want to get into it, that's your choice, but this is why I'd like you to lay off the America bashing, because when the issues are brought up, you change the subject. And, for the record, in the several posts that I've made about this, I've questioned "it's inappropriate for (you) to be doing here" once. Oh, and please feel free to post any substantive points that you have raised that I did not respond to. Here are points that I have raised which, IMO, were substantive, but you choose not to respond to.

Cmon now Northwoods, you know Canuck would never respond to your points with anything of substance. He's a Canadian, they're all like that. :p

Here I was, Northwoods, actually thinking that you had provided good, substantive, academic arguments....but you really have just given a bunch of your own personal opinions. Classic case of the pot calling the kettle black, my friend.

Anyways, I digress....

Point #1
As a rule, Americans are a lot more internally focused than the rest of the world. You can see this when travelling, as you will notice that you are much more likely to run into an Aussie or a Canuck than you are a Yankee...even though the US population is that much bigger. The opinion of many Americans is that they might as well travel their own country instead...now I'm not saying this is wrong, but it does contribute to much global ignorance.

Point #2
Even if we adjust for purchasing power parity, you will find that the American lifestyle is much better than a large majority of the world. I don't see how you can debate this point, but I will concede that the same can be said for most Western nations. I will also concede that life ain't perfect for many Americans, but a discussion of internal economic policy is for another day.

Point #3
We've had this argument before, with you claiming that its unfair to use the term 'America' to refer to the actions of the US government. First of all, I wasn't totally against the war - but I have no problem saying that the American military kicked the crap out of Iraq - as that is what happened.

Point #4
This is pure rhetoric, dude. You listed a whole bunch of nice things that a few American citizens do. I never said that all Americans are these horrible people, even though you seem to have labeled me as thinking this. Is this how life works though - other people go out and help the world and you stay home watching football, eating potato chips, and saying how great your country is? Doesn't work for me - the people doing these things are great, but the fact that they do it hardly makes me think better of Americans as a whole.


Point #5
The USA is probably the country I feel most comfortable entering as a visitor. That being said, you guys do not treat your foreigners as well as other countries do. I'll bet that if you asked any foreign counselor, they would have a few funny stories to tell you about run-ins with Americans. It happens ALL THE TIME. If anything, this sentiment may encourage counselors to help their kids not behave in this way.


Point #6
You're getting a little overly patriotic here. Are you that proud of your country that you're not willing to even hear criticism? And Boomis - don't even try and make another anti-semitism link, there is a difference between relaying observations based on experience and blind hatred of a minority group.

One quick point....

I hope everyone understands the sticky situation I'm in. If I try and get into this conversation, then I'm accused of America-bashing. If I don't, then I'm accused of not making substantial points and dancing around the subject.

Canuk, while I basically agree with your points (though, in all fairness, the USA is a big country with drastically different areas, and it's cheaper and easier for someone like myself to travel in the US than outside it, since I'd have to drive or bus...can't afford aplane ticket. Plus, some people want to get to know their country before they explore outside of it.) I can't help but notice this is the first time you have laid out your thoughts in a way that doesn't feel like you are using American as an insult. I'm not much of a Patriot, and I am definately ill over current politics, but I only see a certain portion of Americans fitting your descrptions, just like I am sure you only see a certain portion of Canadians being snobbish, self-richeous, and boring.
I think the big problem (this is just MHO, don't anyone else get on me) is the way you put your ideas forth, in other parts of the board. Using a person's home country as an insult is hurtful and frustrating, and I think that people might get just as offended if you made fun of one of the other "internationals" by using their country as an insult. It's fine if you have an oppinion on the matter. I share them, more or less, but it's the way you toss them out there like every American is stupid and self-centered is is both ignorant and uncompassionate. I would think that as someone who seems to have reason to claim to be an exempilary staff member at a camp would have enough decency to not aggrivate an already sensitive issue.

Hmm, I think the whole thing goes both ways on this point Canuck. I have been to Quebec and have been treated fairly poorly. Have been questioned by folks in other countries that I personally was responsible for my governments actions. We have friends from other countries and all they can say is how nice the people they are that they meet in the US. Yes there are jerks in America who treat anybody from "away" badly, but there are those types everywhere. "Away" is anybody who doesn't live in the area American or not. And I have travelled to Australia and other parts of Canada and all along running into the nicest people.

I agree with a lot of what you say Canuck, it's sometimes not that we Americans don't know what our problems are it's sometimes that we don't like or want others telling us what they are. Anyway if you're ever in the Maine woods I'll get you some good micro brew.

I have to say I don't think that Canuck is dumb, but I do thin that he is a pain sometimes. We all have our days. I think that I have went this route with him one time or another.

Hmm, I thought that I had just yelled and provided no substance throughout this argument. Now that I went and picked the things out, I may have, or not. Whatever. And while these things may be my opinion, you have yet to show that they are incorrect.
This has nothing to do with the point that I raised, which is that most Americans are middle to lower-middle class trying to make ends meet. They live in the US and deal with US costs of living, but to link ot to travel, many can't afford to travel. Many Americans travel within the US because of what it offers as well as because of economics. But the thing is that your premise is incorrect. I've looked at a few websites, (www.statcan.ca, www.infoplease.com) that list travel statistics for the US, Canada, etc, and they do no not prove your point that you are more likely to bump into a Canadian abroad then an American. If you look on a percapita basis, travel rates are pretty similar.

I'm not going to go point by point because I don't have the time and this isn't going to go anywhere, but I want to deal with one more thing, which is part of the problem that I've had in discussions with you.

See, the thing is that this isn't what you said. Had you mentioned Bush or even the military establishment, I would've had no problem with what you said. But you didn't say "America", you said "Being willing to kick the crap out of Iraq hardly shows global concern" in response to the American population' global concern.

I'm not overly patriotic. I'm willing to hear criticism and discuss it. Don't go to that default when people take issue with what you say about them.

JUST BACK FOR A MINUTE.

ALWAYS STARTING SOMETHING AREN'T YOU ADAM?

Keep it up

Mark, I saw your post about midstates, and came and check this thread with the gut feeling that you couldn't resist a thread called: Canuck is a dumbass.

Leave it to CD7 to make a cameo appearance on such a redicuouls topic.

canuck is right, ameicans don't really travel at all b/c we're taught that everything you need to learn will be taught in a classroom....and the only reason some website says that americans travel just as much is because it's including the 14 day tours where you never have to leave the bus except to make your way to the 5 star marriot in the middle of varanasi....that doesn't do much for the open mindedness that it's supposed to help with, while you're more likely to run into the rest of the world at you 60 rupee guesthouse...

ah, yes, anicdotal evidence, the mother's milk of trying to prove a point without any legitimate facts.

i never do, but am i wrong????

You just provided anicdotal evidence. Your claim is that almost all the Americans who are traveling abroad are in big tour groups and don't leave the bus. First of all do you have any proof that the vast majority of American tourists travel in such groups? I'm venture to say tht you don't because, while there are lots of American tour groups (along with French, German, Canadian, etc) there are also many Americans who tour without such groups and stay at lodgings tht are not five star Marriotts. Secondly, do you have any proof that there aren't an equal number of other nationalities that travel via tour groups and stay at 5 star Marriotts when they go abroad? Your entire statement was anicdotal.

i'm not arguing the anicdotal (how the heck do you spell that word) aspect, but i don't think there is any point in any of us saying that we're experts on this subject....reading one of 8 million websites all with different #'s gives no more evidence than limited experiences...that's all any of us are really doing, giving opinions from experiences in our life, isn't it??? and i sure as heck see a lot more americans on the tour buses and fancy hotels barely experiencing anything different than their home country club, but granted, maybe i just notice more...which brings us back to the original point, ok, i forgot what the orininal point was.....american's need to be learn more from experience and less from the classroom and biased news services...i doubt anyone could disagree with that

A few notes of observation:

1. Evidence of personal opinion is not necessarily wrong.
2. Northwoods, you provided stats (although I must admit I never checked them out). What CUSE did was demonstrate a different way to interpret those stats - she essentially questioned your assertion, in a somewhat logical manner.

I have stayed out of this Canuck discussion up until this point, first of all because I think it is taking over the boards, and second of all because this is an arguement that I don't really want to be involved in. However, I think it's time I make my thoughts known.

First of all, I don't like this singling out of people and then bashing them. I will say that some of your concerns are legitamite. At the same time though, taking an entire topic (which spans two web pages) and devoting it to Canuck seems really ridiculous. If his America-bashing really bothers you that much, then just ignore his posts. Once he realizes that with the way he is acting he will end up with no credibility, he'll probably be more willing to change his tune. Right now you all are fueling his fire.

Canuck, I think you are a valuable poster around here at times. However I do feel that some of your comments are out of line. There is a difference between poking a little fun and outright bashing America and it's people. I have not heard very many people make fun of Canada or Canadians, so I don't feel that we deserve this either. I would appreciate it if you could tone it down. I understand your feelings about America, but I don't think it's necessary to continually bring those feelings up, especially since they are pretty much unrelated around here.

Adam, if you've followed the history, you'd notice that the whole American bashing thing stopped a day or so ago. Northwoods insisted on me getting into his little discussion, so I gave him his bottle and did so. I was actually in a very bad position, completely lose-lose.

Busy working at camp for spring break, cant post much. But I knew that CD7 never left!!!!

Canuck, you were in a lose-lose situation because you were the one in the wrong to begin with. Funny how that works out, huh?

This should read "this conversaiton would've stopped a day or two ago but Northwoods wouldn't let my statements go unchecked".

Sorry Canuck I have not followed the entire conversation. I didn't really want to read through all 40-something posts.

Boomy, at least Northwoods was able to have a somewhat intelligent conversation. For someone with such a big head, I wonder why you couldn't do the same.

P.S. Why you starting up with me again?

Gee, what would we all do without you? Funny how, the second some of us start "checking" your comments; you start attacking the person again....at least a straw person.

Buddy, I think you need a girlfriend....bad!

Whatever, Canuck, you want your cake and to eat it too. I'm done.

How about addressing my 7:03 post before calling it quits. Here we had something legitimately challenging you, and all you could say was that her argument was no good because it was "anecdotal", while completely ignoring the value of her premises. (you learn lots when you devote your life to the LSAT for 3 months).

I didn't address that because I'm growing tired of this going nowhere and it being totally fruitless.

The evidence was anecdotal because Cuse said that a bunch of Americans who travel abroad are on tours that never leave the bus. Cuse was directly trying to discredit statistics that show the numbers of Americans who travel abroad. He/she said
As such, Cuse was putting the difference, which was several million people, was those included in 14 day tours. If you are going to try to undermine the facts using that point, you first need to show how many people are on these tours and that there aren't a significant number of non-Americans on similar tours. You can't just undermine a statistic by saying Cuse said that there are eight million websites with differing numbers, well the surely Cuse can find one that shows that there is such an overwhelming number of Americans on tour buses.

I agree with Cuse's point that Americans can stand to learn more from experience and less from the news (who IMO, are not doing their jobs these days). Yeah, some American tourists don't leave the tour buses, some don't experience the real parts of the country that they visit, but if someone is going to try to show that such a huge number of American tourists travel via tour(perhaps never leaving the bus) show me the numbers. Saying that "i sure as heck see a lot more Americans on the tour buses and fancy hotels barely experiencing anything different than their home country club" is anecdotal.

But this gets back to my original point in that most Americans are middle to lower-middle class people who cannot afford to travel abroad. They are worried about paying the rent, putting food on the table and sending their kids to college. More importantly, you could say that same thing about the average Mexican, Australian, and so on. Throughout this whole thing, we are putting more responsibility on Americans going out and learning about other cultures then we are on other societies.

Cuse was obviously being a bit fescitious by limiting her point to "Americans on tour" - but I also think we were expected to pick up on that. I think what she was saying is that Americans don't get out and experience different cultures. As for your stats - you claim that she can't undermine the stats in the manner she did. However, stats are just that - stats. Just like she looked to undermine them, you tried to base your entire argument on them. All you (claim) to have proven to me is that Americans travel the world just as much as those from other cultures.

Your statement about the average family being lower-middle class is true (although these classes are defined by the West, but that's a different issue) - but still doesn't prove my point incorrect. Americans make the choice to travel internally - surely one who can afford Mardi Gras in New Orleans could also afford Oktoberfest in Munich.

I've actually had a few discussions about this with some Yankee travellers in Europe's youth hostels (by the way, from my personal "anecdotal" experience - I ran into very few Yanks, especially when compared to Canucks, Aussies, and Kiwis) - they simply explain that the American mindset is very internally focused, and that an average American would prefer to travel from sea to sea than hop across the pond.

Canuck,
At a point in the above discussion you mentioned that you were in a "lose-lose" position...I think that this solidifies my theory that this is a competitive matter for you.

This board is not a place of competition. I say that being an EXTREMELY competitive person. You may say: "Well, aren't you trying to beat me now?" I'm not...I'm just trying to prove a point.

It's not always about "one-upping" people on this board. It's not about Canada is better than the U.S. and (whether you like it or not) it's not about you being smarter than everybody on this board.

Canuck...why do you enjoy angering people? Just curious. Perhaps it's because we embrace those things that we excel at.

You know the only thing I don't like about camp? When people start backbiting, bickering, and being unwilling to forgive or appologize. It happens at nearly every camp, every summer...some more than others.
What I have always liked about this board is that the regulars seemed to be the type of staff that could be mature and deal with things, rather than keep harping on a subject that needs to be dropped. Canuk, I understand how you feel about the U.S. but you hurt somebody's (or a few somebodys') feelings. Appologizing for that part of it is not beneath you.
Everyone else, Why is it necissary to try and prove Canuk wrong? Why do you need to keep beating this issue into the ground, when it is not going to do anything but cause a lot of tension around here? This thread never should have been made in the first place, so let it die, and move one. We are all grown-ups, right? You know that the more you push this, the more Canuk is going to push back, and you'll just keep getting angry.

Golyek, nice try, but I'm not biting. This is lose-lose because no matter what I say, I will look bad. If I try and make legitimate arguments, then you will think I'm anti-America (and those people don't belong in a country that believes in free speech, do they) - but if I try and be the mature one and ignore the situation, you guys get mad at me for not defending myself. See my problem? (I doubt it - you'll likely twist things a bit more and reach more ludicrous conclusions).

Pixie; I offended Freaky - and now Freaky and I are cool....but you're right; as long as the triumvirate keep pressing the issue, I will keep responding.

Finally Golyek - this has nothing to do with Canada-US; we've been arguing points of fact. Canada is a progressive, free nation - with all the same opportunities presented to Americans, but with much less of the downfalls of living in the US. The US, in parts, has much nicer weather. I really don't have much to argue on this matter, do I?

Try again, bud.

Interesting post... not so much in the content but in the reactions. I applaud Notherwoods & Golyek's efforts for not brushing aside important issues. I just think that the debate gets a bit side tracked.

Sometimes we need to re-frame what debates/problems are really about. This issue seems to be more about hateful speech on the message board - One could call it verging on bigoted speech. Or, as another reply stated, a problem could be combative speech that is aimed to cause anger rather than challenge/extend opinions.

It seems that many people consider Canuck's approach as an acceptable manner of interaction on this site. Why is this and how might it affect future posts? Is it ok for others to engage in negative generalizations or stereotyping of nationanalities, religions, race? Will this example lead others to post comments/post topics as freaky illustrated with this post? Is a new, more extreme, standard of posts/replies now set and accepted or will it be rejected?

Group norms are difficult change once they are set. How do you go about dealing with group norms that may be seen as negative at camp?

Canuck,
Why must you write things like "Nice try" and "Try again"...what do you gain from that? Are you fishing for a response? Nice try at what?Try what again?

Also, you didn't respond to my question at the end of my last post: Why do you enjoy angering/frustrating people? I'm curious about your motivation here.

I can't say I enjoy angering and frustrating people, it's just the way things look. I don't like the way the triumvirate thinks they can preach moral superiority without being called on it.

Couldn't you say the same thing about yourself?

Canuck,
Hey...if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck...it's a duck. Maybe in your case it's a rubber duck. I can't say the same for me because I don't choose to disagree with everybody all the time. The difference between you and me is that I will tell people when I agree with them just as much as I will tell people that I disagree with them. There is a balance there. And, when I disagree with somebody I do it in a respectful way.

The majority of the interactions that people have with you on this board involves you shooting down their ideas, often with the inclusion of some snide personal attack.

I honestly think that my problem with you isn't necessarily as much about what you say...it's more about how you say it.

You have the right to your opinions. Perhaps we could make a poll about all these ways to describe me, and see what the board thinks. By the way, have you ever heard of modesty? You could have called your last post: "Why I am great."

One thing about me is that I haven't judged anyone on here beyond who they are as a poster. You seem to readily make conclusions about the people behind the nickname.

Would you all please just Private Message each other? This is getting way too old.

Adam, why can't you just ignore the thread? I'd bet others actually find us entertaining.

Canuck,
You haven't judged anyone on this board based on who they are as a poster? On the post about fighting you called me a loser! Did you forget that? You've personally judged many people on this board Canuck and you're lying to yourself if you think otherwise.

I still stand-by my post. Though it was immature, and pointless, it obvousily was needed because there is a lot of talk of the subject.

I have no more comments on the actual subject, but this subject and the variety of subjects as a whole.

Let is not forget, though this place is designed for camp talk, counselors are a variety of people, and so the topics will be a variety of things.

For many people this is there place to post what is on there mind, which should be mainly concentrated on camp, but people should be able to have other topics also.

I like that people are starting to talk about more things then just camp. And if we were to tie it into camping, talking about different subjects helps people become better people, and so they also become better counselors.

The conversation right now I feel is not helping anyone, but then again people also need to learn some opinions can't be changed. Also, maybe some people just want to piss people off.

You are entitled to your opinion. My opinion is that some Canadians are quite envious of the US, which is why they come work here over the summer and try to cover their insecurity by bashing America. Some Canadians are also bitter that the US is a superpower while Canada has zero imporatance on the world stage, for the most part. Some Canadians are having issues keeping parts of their own silly country from seceding because of the incohesiveness of Canada as a whole, but still prefer to try to address their neighbors problems instead of dealing with their own. Some Canadians should take a hard long look in the mirror before they open their mouths again. I won't generalize those facts to ALL Canadians, but some Canadians wave their insecurity around so blatently that even a child can see it.

Hmm, Apparently I am not an average American, I would very much love to travel the world, unfortunately, I don't have the several thousand dollars it costs to take a trip out of the country. I can barely scrap together a couple hundred dollars to fly to camp for the summer. I think if you were to ask around that would be the general consensus, I know many people that would love to travel outside the country, but for many of us it is just not an option financially.
I have stayed out of this argument and this thread for a while, but I gave in because I had to find out what could be so important as to go on for TWO pages!!!
I am personally disgusted by the gross generalizations people are making from every direction! We are supposed to be the well-educated, open-minded generation. If anyone came onto this page that hadn't been here before, they would quickly make the generalization that we are all a bunch of petty, immature, close-minded idiots. Get over it guys! And move onto something else! I am sorry if a sound like a bitch, but seriously this is ridiculous.