I'm wondering if many other camps use camp names. My camp used camp names ONLY for many years, and recently changed. The first year of change we could not use the camp names, the second year we could use the camp names, but if a camper asked our real name, we had to disclose. Do you have camp names and what are your policies about them?

I had never even heard of camp names until I got to this board. Obviously, nick-names are common at my camp. But keeping one's name a secret and going by something entirely new seems ridiculous to me.

we use camp names all the time. from the first day of staff training until the last day with campers. however, if a parent asks my real name i tell them. it may make them feel better knowing their pride and joy is being cared for by Lacie instead of Brassy. LOL.

Girl Scout camps use camp names, and have been using them for a long time.

We never tell campers our real names... ever. The campers do find out on their own sometimes, they are sneaky. Now, if a parent asks me what my real name is, I sometimes tell them, it just depends. But most of the time people can figure out my real name if they just think real hard about my camp name... Teenster.

I like camp names, it really helps when you are communicating with camp friends. The camp names can help you identify between friends at home and friends at camp. I have a home friend and a camp friend whose name is Audrey... it's just easier to call the camp friend Twizzler.

- Teenster

Well, from what I understand, camp names originally came about as a respect issue. Way back when camps first started, it was considered rude for kids to address adults by their first name, even if those adults happened to be camp counselors. I guess the counselors thought that was kind of a silly rule, but rather than go against society's mores, they camp up with the camp names issue rather than being addressed as "Mr Smith" or "Ms Jones" by their campers. From that standpoint, it makes sense really. I'm pretty sure it was a GS on this board who posted that first, so if that person is still around please pardon me for stealing your explanation.

Obviously in today's soceity we have less cultural taboos about that sort of thing, so even though camp names are still used there's really not much of a reason for them anymore. I understand that they could add to the "mystique" of camp, but in the grand scheme of things I think they are pretty silly. Really, I just think camp is one place where everybody can really be themselves. What kind of message are we sending campers if we won't even tell them our names? It just seems hypocritical to me if we tell campers to be themselves and then use false names with them.

We don't use camp names at my camp. Some staff will come with nick names or we'll have them come up with one if we have a handful of people with the same first name. Once we had 8 Jennifers who in their college life they all went by Jen. So we had Jen, Jenny, Nifer, and then it went on and on.

Boomis, I think it was me who explained it earlier... not sure though. That's cool, you repeated it

I think the reason that GS camps still use camp names is because it is a tradition. It is something that we have been doing for years, and changing it would just be weird. Every camp has it's own traditions, and camp names happens to be a camp tradition for GS camps.

- Teenster

We don't tell the campers until the last day of camp - and even then, only if they actually remember to ask. The ones that return to camp and know your real name think it is so cool that they know so they generally don't tell.

I did have an older sister send the younger one a list of camp names and real names one summer - would have been amusing if the girl hadn't insisted on telling the whole camp!

I find it hard to switch out of camp name mode when you leave camp. Some of my friends I've been friends with so long that it's not so bad - but those that you meet at camp - that's a hard thing. Shopping is much more fun when you are yelling "Crash!" across the store... Or you don't know the real name of that staff member. That happens too!

I have worked at 7 camps and they all use cmap names. they were all Girl Scout camps. However I have heard of some Girl Scouts camps switching to no camp names. I like having cmap names. It seems to get the staff to loosen up and be silly. I also like the idea of creating a name yourself and starting at camp with a unique idenity that was created by the counselor instead of given to them.

The expanaton that Boomis gave is the same one I was given at a huge staff reunion some years ago by some older women (80yrs old) who explained where the camp names thing came from.

I love my camp name, I am my camp name.

we definitely don't have camp names. it would never work for us in the first place b/c many of the counselors' younger siblings/cousins/family friends are at camp and it would never be kept a secret!!! we have nicknames for everyone, but mostly we do a lot of calling people by their last names or a shortened version of someone's last name, or if someone is a younger/older brother or sister they are "big last name" and "little last name"

our camp uses camp names, like many girl scout camps. we come with names or get named during staffed training. an outside of camp the camp names stick, about 99% of the folks at camp i am friends with i call by their camp names. campers love guessing what our real names are!

we use camp names, at the end of each session the kids get to guess what our real names are.

the GS camp I work at uses camp names also like many girl scout camps. We come with names or get named during staffed training. Outside of camp the camp names sticks the camp directors are know by there camp names year round, most counselors, camp aids I don't even know there real name and when I see some of them at council programs that I am volunteering at or working they call me by my camp name Rainbow.

My first summer at camp I didn't even go to training and since I had never gone to GS camp in the summer as a girl. I didn't know you needed a camp name till the first morning I was there. So since I was wearing a hello kitty hat with a rainbow on it. A junor GS thought that should be my name and the rest is history. Wow that was almost 4 years ago! I have also been given two other names Rambo becuase I am all over camp doing work all over as the assistant program specilaist and Paparazi becuase one of the many parts of my job is that I am the camp photographer and I am always clicking the camera away.

I'm from a GS camp, and we definitely use camp names...I've actually gone through about 6 camp names since I was a Brownie...though I've had Jabberwocky since I became a CIT. Boomis-that was the explanation I was given too. We tell girls our names on the last day of camp, though few remember from one year to the next, although when my little sister was at camp, she kept starting to say my name...VIrginia...so I had a group of kids that for the past 2 years still believes my name is "Vermont." Also amusing when my kids decided to sing "West Virginia, Mountain Mama" for campfire. BUt yes, it makes differentiation between campers and staff much easier-since there aren't two or three PLuto's or Jabberwocky's, though there's about 7 Sarahs, etc. We did have a camper named Roxie, and a staffer too, which was funny when we caught girls wandering around without a staff. We asked where their counselor was, and they said "They said to go with Roxie!" Staff meant the counselor, the 7-year-olds thought the girl!

We use camp names at my Girl Scout camp. I've been Indigo ever since I was a WIT, and I respond to it far more than my real name. The kids love to try to guess our real names, and we're not supposed to tell them, but some people do. I sometimes tell a few at the end of the session. Other than that, when the girls pester me, I just tell them, "My name's really Indigo. It's what I call myself, how much more real can you get?"

The reason we were told was that there had been security issues, with campers' parents contacting the staff directly to harass them. That must have been ages ago, though.

THe first camp I worked at used camp names and I miss them. It was fun for campers to have a easy doen time game of trying to guess your real name and I agree with the person who said you begin to become your camp name and identify with it so much. It is a chance to create yourself new. and that is kinda what camp is all about.

We use camp names. We don't have to disclose them unless we are going on an out of camp trip and that is for safety reasons.

I let the campers try and guess my name and sometimes they get it. I also wasn't very sneaky with it the first week or two, wearing hoodies with my name on it etc.

we've always used camp names at our camp. We work hard all week to not mess up and use our real names, and we tell the kids our real names the day they go home. It's fun and it keeps the campers guessing the whole time they are there.

we've always used camp names at our camp. We work hard all week to not mess up and use our real names, and we tell the kids our real names the day they go home. It's fun and it keeps the campers guessing the whole time they are there.

I think this topic came up before, and I think I made my opinion quite clear, nevertheless I will do so again.

I think the use of camp names is downright wrong. It is irresponsible and does not have the best interests of the campers in mind.

We are trying to entrust these kids to us, but by doing so we are dishnoest about the most important thing, our names. If a kid is having trouble and would like to talk about it, wouldn't it be right for them to know who you really are; not sugar plum fairy or Ursula?

Dale Carnegie, one of the foremost experts on human behaviour, wrote a whole chapter of his book on how one's name is that most important word to them. It is crucial for us to use names when we are dealing with people. However, it seems like camps ignore this in favour of tradition?

I don't buy it.

How fabulous to see you back stirring the pot again Canuck! Although for what it's worth, I know where you are coming from on this one. I don't like the idea of camp names either although I don't feel quite as strongly about it as you. In my opinion, campers should know their counselor's real name. Now if that counselor happens to have a nickname they get called frequently at camp or whatever, fine and well, but I'm just not in favor of a camper never knowing their counselor's real name, or not knowing until they are right about to leave.

Not to be blunt, but I think that this whole camp name thing is pretty messed up. I know that this may offend some people here but if you really examine the situation, you may see the negative impact potential. Your name is part of your identity, who you are. What are camps saying by giving people new names and not allowing people to share their names? I think that it sends mixed messages, really. Camp is about honesty and being comfortable with who you are. But wait, your name isn't good enough, we're going to give you a new name. And while I'd like to have this friendship with you, I'm not going to tell you what my name is.

At it's very basic level, I think that this concept discourages people from being who they are. I think that it may even encourage people to change their persona and change who they are which flies of the face of learning more about ones self. I think that it is an obstacle to honest, real relationships.

*checks to see if hell has frozen over or the Cubs have won the World Series*

Canuck and Northwoods just agreed on something!

*wonders how long it will take for them to start arguing again*

Anyway I think a large part of camp names is rooted in tradition at GS camps especially, and because of that, it'll probably never change. Don't get me wrong, as I said I'm all for camp nicknames and such, but I think keeping your real name from the campers isn't setting a very good "be yourself" example.

It has been mentioned by a couple of posters on this thread that camp names help you create a new identity of sorts, but isn't that a negative thing? Camp is about you being yourself with you REAL identity, not making one up that fits in at camp. Also, I think the question as to why campers want to know your real names that several of you have asked should be pretty self-explanatory when you think about it, no? Your name is who you are, and campers want to get to know you as a person, not necessarily just as an extension of camp.

I worked at a GS camp and I had no problem using a camp name. I wouldn't have cared either way, but camp names are fine by me.

99% of people who don't speak Icelandic are unable to pronounce my real name anyway, and I don't have a nickname, so having a camp name was a good thing for me!

I do think that your real name and camp name persona should be the same, though.

We always told kids our names at the end of camp, sometimes earlier, and none of them really cared what my real name was, anyway. I am Dixie to them, just as I am Dixie to all of their parents and all of my co-workers. I call my camp friends by their camp names whenever I talk to them, because that is how I know them. I do know their real names, but if someone mentioned my friend Sarah to me, I would have no idea who they were talking about.

I don't think not using our "real" names made the kids trust us any less. And I say "real", because by now, I consider my real name to be Dixie, just as much as my actual real name is my name. In Icelandic, my name is Au?ur - in English, it is Dixie.

I like my camp-name. in part, it's because i hate my "real" name. I don't really know if it's "who i am" or if my real name is, since my take is; you are who you are and you can't actually be anyone other than yourself. I am who I am, and I can't be otherwise, so what matter what people call me? yes, I'm a rather different person at camp, but that really doesn't have to do with having a different name to "hide behind" the name-change might be part of it, but there is so much more.

Also, I have non-camp friends whom i only know by a nickname, much the same way that i know my camp friends, but does it change who they are if i don't know their real name? does Sarah hide behind Gelf? if there are so many Matts we can't keep them straight without nicknames, does that mean i don't actually know who they are? and i know you think it's different because i can learn their names if i want, whereas people generally don't tell their campers, but i don't think of it as hiding who i am from them. Camp names aren't that different from nicknames, and no one complains about people being called those, the only real difference is that one is derived from their real name, but the other...doesn't have to be.

Boomis is right, the camp name thing is based in GS camps, and most likely will never change because it is tradition. I know there are some GS camps that went to real names, that's cool, they can do what they want. I know of some other camps that aren't GS camps that use camp names, and I don't get it. It's almost like they copied off of the GS camps or something.

Yeah, camp names are silly, and mess with the whole being yourself thing. Also not telling the campers your real name isn't really honest... but I just go with it. It's true I don't call any of my camp friends by their real names, but like I've said before, that helps me identify who are camp friends and who are school friends.

Some background info on my camp name. I got the nick name in high school. It is based on my real name... Tina. Is there a difference between Tina and Teenster, no, not really. Maybe when I'm at camp, and I'm Teenster, I'm a little more outgoing, but that is about it. But, I would be more outgoing at camp if I had a camp name or not. I also think that if I worked at a camp without camp names, people would still call me Teenster, because it is just a nick name that has followed me for about eight years now.

Camp names are cool, but yeah... they are a little weird.

- Teenster

Just because things are tradition does not make them right. It was tradition for women not to vote, or for boy scouts to exclude gays...is this right?

Your name is who you are. It defines you.

Suppose a kid has problems at home and wants to talk with you abou it: is that the time for her to be talking to Sarah her counselor or to Snow White?

As long as the person that kid is talking to is a good counselor, and responds appropriately, why should it matter if their name is Poopy-Head?

A rose by any other name, and all that.

i really shouldn't be posting on this, since I'm rather irratable at the moment, but...

your name does not define who you are. if that were true, then why am i not exaclty like the thousand other amys in the world. my name doesn't really mean much to me, it's just a lable. I know that it isn't that way for some people, and i honestly respect that you like your names more than i do, but just because someone doesn't go by their full name all the time doesn't make them a different person. My grandfather has gone by Bob since he met my grandmother a bazillion years ago, but his name is actually George, and he's not any less of himself for it.

What about people who go by middle names? are they trying to decive people so that no one will trust them? if you found out your friend Fred's first name was Bob, was this a huge betrayal issue and you'll never be able to trust him again? Just because the camper's counselor's name is Sarah doesn't mean that that is actually her name, what if her name really IS Snow White, but she just forgot to tell her camper? that's the same kind of a lie. or is it just that one doesn't seme to be a name, whereas the other is?

I never once felt disconnected with my counselors because they had strange names. the only time it was a problem for me was when i had to explain to my friends at home why my counselor's names were "Gallileo" or whatever. If i'd ever had anything to confess to them, i would have done so, without ever thinking that they wouldn't trust me with their names, or that thus they must not be trustworthy.

Bear with me here, as this is hard for me to explain.

Calico and Allison, although they look the same and have the same voice, are two very different people. Allison grew up with constant teasing for her deformed ear; she never had many friends, and was quite the loner. She was a bibliophile who didn't like to be in the outdoors any longer than she had to. Very quiet and reserved, she was not an eager leader.

Calico, on the other hand, has not been influenced by society's constant demands of conformity. She was "born" (or created, whatever you want to call it) in a place that accepted all differences. Her ear received no more attention than her smile, or her abilities as a CIT. She is always ready to sing a song, lead an activity, or read a story to any child, camper or no. She is the leader who loves children and is not afraid to act "childish" while being herself.

In short, I am both Calico and Allison. Calico is not a "new" persona; she is just a different side which is not welcomed in the outside world. Camp is her home.

What I'm getting at is that while I have two names and "personalities", they are both very much ME and are both present in all of my activities. I feel closer to campers as Calico because I don't have the influences of society to appear to be a friend. I can be a friend however I need to without fear of what the next person will think of me.

I hope all that made sense- if anything seems confusing, I'll be happy to explain it further.

Because the entire relationship is based on dishonesty. You are trying to give the kids advice, but are withholding a key piece of information about yourself.

Because you are Amy, along with all of your life experiences that go with it. To you, you are the real Amy....not the real Free Willy.

That's a ludicrous, straw-person, fallacy if I ever saw one. Your name is not the word on your birth certificate, but is the word that you are called 365 DAYS A YEAR. Obviously, your grandfather's name is Bob (although that is not his government name). Nice try, though.

Everything Calico says and does has a basis in Alison's personal experiences. Furthermore, are we looking to teach our kids that they should have a dual-persona? You should be teaching that camp is a safe place where one can let-loose, and be who they really are...not who they wish to pretend to be.

To quote Mr. Carnegie again (and I truly hope everyone has heard of this name, and if you haven't, look him up): one's name is the word in the English language that they like the most. Some of the world's most successful leaders have had the skill of recognizing this and being able to remember thousands of names - and not relying on nicknames, but one's REAL NAME.

Does nobody remember the infamous quote of Mr. Derstrom? I've got a prize for whomever can come up with it.

The girl scouts should stick to tying knots, baking brownies, and selling cheap cookies...none of this personality change crap is necessary.

On a more serious note, I'd like to mention the most special part of your name. It is likely the first gift your parents ever gave you, and also represents one of the most important life decisions that will ever be made....but is something they make FOR YOU.

i know i already posted, but that was before most people did

i agree partly with everyone on this. Camp names are just girl scout tradition. If a camper guesses my name or a parent wants to know I will tell them with no problem. That's how the staff are at my camp. The name thing is just for fun. It's tradition. I don't think that camp names is creating a new you or that if you go by Butter or Brassy or Sunshine that you aren't being you. Your camp name is like the camp side of you. It isn't always appropriate at work or school or whatever, but it is at camp. Being known as something isn't changing who you are. It's just bringing out another part of your personality.

Honestly, camp names are not a big deal. I was a camper for many many years with counselors having camp names, it's rooted in tradition. And if you ask any girl at girl scout camp if she feels betrayed or deceived because of the name thing she would probably say no. The only people who feel it is really wrong are probably people who have never been a part of a camp name tradition. But honestly, even if you don't like it, don't get so worked up. Also I don't think that Calico or Allison is trying to say that people should leave dual peronalities. Chances are whether she had a camp name or not, 'Calico" would still be at camp. Most people (especially at all girls camps i think) feel the most uninhibited at camp than anywhere else. It's not that we're all bad people it's that camp is the most comfortable environment. Nothing is wrong with that. You can try to compare camp to other situations but it doesn't really work because camp is a whole little world in itself and the environment there is different than anywhere else in the world I think. Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion but take it easy there, no reason to get hyped up about something unless you've been on either or both sides.

Well I'm off now. Cayenne says bye, oh wait and so does Caiti Sue now...haha. (Sorry that may have been mean but I couldn't resist)

Isn't the irony of this topic in that almost all of the screen names in this site are not real names? (at least for those who disagree so much with camp names).

my thoughts exactly

Is anyone else as disturbed by some of the posts here that have been pro camp names that I think show their potential damage.

Calico or Allison, to me, your camp did a disservice to you. It made you comfortable with who you are at camp but not in the real world. Perhaps if you were accepted as Allison at camp and shown that this is the real world, you'd be more comfortable and confident and accepting of who you are outside of camp. Why do you feel that you can't be the same person outside of camp as you are at camp? Why, as you put it, is she not welcomed in the outside world? Your camp should've helped you find who you are and made you realize that this is a beautiful person who is the same at camp and outside of camp.

Qui, I'd say the same thing about you not liking your name. I'm not going to go any deeper than that because I don't know anything about you other than you don't like your name. As a young girl at a camp, what if you would've had a conversation with a 17 year old counselor who you looked up to and that counselor said that she felt that your name was really cool? Maybe that would've made you more comfortable with your name and who you are outside of camp.

Camp may be the one or two months (or one or two weeks) during the summer but it's effects are supposed to go far beyond what happens during that period of time. Camp is not supposed to make you a different person during the summer, only to send you home to change back into the pre-growth person. Camp is supposed to give you building blocks and resources, strength and positive growth that helps you throughout your life.

What really worries me is the tie that this all has to the issue of camp not being the real world. That camp is one thing and than you have to return into the cruel outside world and who you were before. Well, seeing as how some camps create this false reality, I can see how many people believe this. Camp is the real world, it helps people grown and you are the same person away from camp as you are at camp. Camp is only a fraction of each of our and our camper's lives and we need to give our campers all the resources that we can so that they can thrive throughout their life. If we are making camp this haven away from home and giving them two different lives, we're doing damage.

As for the "it's just tradition' thing, that's not a reason, by itself, to keep doing anything. If traditions are positive and meaningful, great, but just because they're traditions doesn't mean that they shouldn't be reevaluated and possibly changed.

Yeah I have to agree Northwoods a lot of these defenses for camp names are a little strange to me, as well. CaitiSue, you're probably right that almost all of the people who disapprove of it have never bene part of it, but that's only natural. It's not easy to examine the negative aspects of a camp you work at for anybody, really. The basic argument in favor of them seems to simply be "Well I am more comfortable and have a different personality at camp, and thus the camp name." I just don't buy that argument; I still think it's like saying you feel that you can't be yourself without changing your name.

And Northwoods is right; why isn't a Calico or a Qui welcome in the outside world? I don't know about you, but I really am the same person at camp as I am outside camp. I don't change my personality at all. I think that one of the positive influences camp has had on me is that I AM more comfortable being myself to the general public. If I had been given a camp name at my first camp I might not feel the same; maybe I WOULD feel that my "camp" personality was separate and different from my real one.

Again, I am all in favor of camp nicknames. I think they can help build a community and a feeling of inclusiveness at a camp. I just don't agree with not telling your campers your real name at all. I think it does more harm than good and really just sends the wrong message. Obviously it's not an intentional thing, and it may be pretty subtle, but there it is.

I would first like to say that Calico's grandfather argument is not a straw-man argument, this fallacy occurs when someone makes up a arument postion for you and attacks that made up argument, please, look over you basic logic book! Second off, I do not believe there is anything wrong with a camp name just as long as the kids know your real name, that is, if the kids ask. I would like to give an example of name confusion however. My real name is James, and as such, people call me "Jim". I prefer to be called James, however, I am an RA at my university and we have a lot of people who do not speak english as their first language, and it is hard for them to pronounce "James", most often people will say "Jace". Wishing not to offend me, people didn't even say my name (not that I would be offended, they just didn't want to offend me) I found that "Jim" is a lot less difficult for them to pronounce. Now people call me "Jim" all the time at school, and on all offical documents, my name is "James" so if someone from Admin is looking for me, they ask for "James", which confuses people because some people do not know that "Jim" is simply short for James. The first year I worked at the camp that I work for, I went by "James" staff and kids called me "James". The second year, I went by "Jim", simply because I felt that "James" sounded too formal this too caused some confusion because the kids and staf I knew from the first year called me James while the new kids and staff called me Jim, to top it all off my sister works for the same camp, and my family calls me "Jimmy". One staff member said "I never knew one person with so many different names!" Some of my friends even call me "Jay", I got a letter once from one of my friends back home addressed to "Jay Carr", no one could figure out who that was, but the letter got to me any way. My point being? What is a name? I think it is a good alternitive to "Hey You!". Did the kids still trust and bond with me knowing that I had so many different names? Yeah, they sure did.

All right, well in an attempt to be objective. I can see where you could think that camp names could be bad but let me tell you that they really aren't. If someone does create two totally different personalities for each name then it might be different. But I really don't know anyone who does and if someone acts differently at camp than they do at home chances are it's not because they have a camp name. I know that when I go to camp I am more uninhibited than anywhere else, not that I am constantly worrying what others think, but because camp is a sigh of relief, and people often feel they are among close friends at camp they are a bit more at ease. This can be especially true when you've been going there all your life. I have to say that I have worked at camps that have had camp names and haven't and Cayenne was Caitlin and Caitlin Cayenne if you will. So, I can really see where you're coming from except that I don't think everyone associates a special personality with their camp name. And lastly, I don't think camp is completely the real world but I have only been at two kinds of camps. One being a girl scout camp (obviously the world is not single gendered) and worked at a camp for kids with special needs(that was different because it was a place these kids could go and fit in) So maybe camp would seem more like the real world if I went to one that represented more groups or both genders. In conclusion I guess the "real world" depends on the camp and camp names from experience don't seem very harmful and certainly not dishonest. Dishonest would be telling someone that is your name and you do not have another one but all campers understand that your camp name is not your real name and are accepting of it. No--it doesn't interfere with bonding either.

Wow that was long.

Caiti Sue

Let me put it this way: what harm can come from you telling your campers your real name? If it makes you feel better to be called a different name at camp, find and well, but what could the harm possibly be in telling your campers your actual name? Yeah I've heard that it's "fun" for the campers to try and guess you real name, but realistically considering the subliminal psychological downsides of camp names wouldn't you think it's just best to tell campers your actual name too?

I like going to camp every summer and being Buttons. It's a little added touch of camp magic for me, and also for my kids.

We've discussed this topic before, and nothing really comes of it... no one is going to change their minds. But whatever... yay camp names because they're silly and fun!

You're right, it wasn't a straw-person fallacy, but it was still a weak argument.

Your choice to go by Jim or James is really just a nickname. You are not hiding who you are. Suppose you told all your frosh to call you The Green Lantern....seems a lot different than Jim, doesn't it?

Not really, I am not who I think I am, I am who other people think I am. I believe that a child should know your real name IF the child asks for it (my camp does not have camp names, so really this is a non-issue for me). There are people who say I am their friend and I don't even KNOW their names at all! I mean, lets face it, if a camp wants the staff to use "camp" names, by all means let them, they have their reasons. Be it tradition, respect, etc... I could not even come up with a reason why a child would be hurt by a camp using a camp name. I suppose if the child asked and the staff refused, then some trust issues could come up, but for the most part camp names are fine.

Haha, oh camp names. They are ridiculous, and Canuck you are a master of satirizing phenomenally bad ones.

I like to think most people don't "hide" behind these camp names or become entirely schizo and have a duel personality whilst as camp. Let's be honest and not blow this all out of proportion. When it comes down to it, I think camp names are just stupid. Yes, even time honored traditions can smack of bad taste. Nicknames are fine, and there are plenty of people who have nicknames at camp that they don't use during the year. But to go by such random inside jokes like Tinkerbellybutton makes grown men and women sound like children, or animals, or cartoon characters. I want my campers to know my name is LINDSAY, not Red or Sweatervest or Snickerdoodle or RamenNoodles. Especially not RamenNoodles. I mean, come on. A rose by any other name would smell less sweet if you called it Crusty Thorn Pie.

so, while i understand that my grandfather was a bad argument, what I'm getting from the responce is that if i went by "Qui" every day for my entire life, that then my name would be Qui, regardless of what was one my birth certificate. But since i only go by it sometimes, I'm still actually Amy. but if i did go by Qui all the time, would my campers then still have trust issues with me, since my name isn't a 'real' name?

I don't believe that I'm the true Amy and it was sort of a last minute thing that i got named that anyways. I knew one counselor who was extreamly cool, and i knew her name was Amy, but that doesn't mean I like Amy as a name any better. It was never that my name isn't cool, i just dislike the sound of it.

I act differently at camp because they have a different set of expectations from me, and no matter how i try to act like that at home, people still react to their old expectations of me, and it becomes very difficult to change.

I do understand why the thought of never telling campers your real name is uncomfortable with people, and I don't really approve of people who lie and tell campers that their real name is...something else. But i don't think that it is lying when they know that your camp name is not your real name. but I also have a hard time believing that a camper will not trust me because i'm "withholding valuable information about myself." It's hard to understand when you don't have a camp name, or even a nick name, but the word that you choose to have your campers call you becomes your name, for a while at least. you sometimes even start to forget that it is a word other than your name, and so sometimes the campers don't even realize it.

Yes, camp names are kinda of silly... but so what! There are a lot of silly/weird things that happen at camp, and for some camps... camp names are one of those things. Camp names or not, we are all working at camp to help change kids' lives, be role models, and have fun.

It is true, not many campers know my real name. I will only tell campers who ask on the last day of camp. But, those same campers who don't know my real name, still come to me for advice, and I know that they trust me. I meet with their parents the Sunday and Friday of camp, and show them, that you can trust me with your child. Campers know that Teenster isn't my real name, and in my three years at camp, I have never seen any psycological (sp?) damage in any campers because I didn't tell them my real name. When they ask during the week, I just say that Teenster is my nick name (and it is) and campers are cool with that. In fact a lot of the campers have nick names... and get really mad if you call them Jennifer when they prefer to be called Jenny.

I do like what Dixie said about camp names. For international staff, a lot of those names are really hard to pronounce, and a nick name is really needed.

This is a topic that will never be agreed on. People will have their own thoughts about it. Oh well... I see both sides.

- Teenster

Just a quick question; suppose my real name was Rainbow Bright (first name: Rainbow; last name: Bright). Would this be acceptable as a camp name, or would I have to change it to something like Joe?

The other side of the "if you've never been a part of a camp with it" thing is that some times people at a camp with certain traditions refuse to take a step back and evaluate some aspects of their camp. Something may seem like a silly tradition but as someone on the outside on this issue, I see a bunch of people who refuse to analyze the ramifications and impact of something. Just because the individuals here (most of whom are counselors and therefor the more successful products of these camps) aren't negatively effected doesn't mean that no one isn't. But like I've said, I am somewhat surprised by the examples that people gave and they seem to show why camp names have negative potential.

I don't think that this is a funny, silly thing. I think that there is a real issue here and for those people who don't agree with me, I just ask you to take a deeper look. Think about the bigger picture and examine this a little more intellectually.

LOL... some of my camp friends and I were talking about this a while back. I jokingly said that I should change my name to Teenster because everyone, at camp and at home, calls me Teenster. Then my director said that I would have to change my camp name if I did that. So, I guess that if your real name was Rainbow Bright, yes you would have to change it for camp, but you wouldn't have to change it to something like Joe. It could be another nick name type thing.

Northwoods, I do see both sides... but really camp names aren't a big issue. True some campers might feel betraied by their counselors for not telling them their real names, but like I've said, I have never heard that before. Until someone can give some evidence, like an article of something that really happened... Or, have you talked with campers that went to a camp name only camp? Did they feel that their counselors weren't being "real" with them because they had camp names? Have you worked at a camp with camp names? Someone said it earlier in this topic... you can't really talk so poorly about something when you haven't experienced it.

Now, I don't agree with the whole change your personality with your camp name thing... that just doesn't settle right with me. I don't think that you should really act any different at camp than you do when you are at home... I don't. I might be a little more outgoing at camp, but that's it. Yeah, you tell people to be yourself at camp, but ask them to change their name... weird.

To tell you all the truth... I like the whole tradition argument the best. It's pretty hard to argue with tradition, no matter what the tradition is.

- Teenster

Eh, you're not going to have campers come up to you and complain that they are being psychologically scarred by the entire staff using camp names because that's just not something campers would do. Think about it; if you attend a camp and every single staff member there goes by a camp name are you as a camper really going to complain about it? You also have to realize that the underlying issues here are not things that campers would really understand. As adult staff members, it is our responsibility to do what is best for our campers, even if they are not conciously aware of it. Maybe we have fun taking camp names and having the campers try and guess our real ones, but it's not about us y'know?

Anyway nobody has answered the question I put earlier. What possible harm could come from telling a camper your real name if they ask for it? I can see no downside of actually telling a camper what your name is, however, I can certainly see a downside in NOT telling a camper what your real name is when they ask y'know?

Canuck, is that your real name? You appear to have a penchant for wanting to be taken seriously. You seem to like to dispense advice. Should we trust you enough to take you seriously and listen to you if you go by a name that isn't your own on this board?

This is an ANONYMOUS message board. If you're going to make an argument, make one that at least has a some logic to it. Yes, Canuck is not Canuck's real name...does that make my opinion that camp names are wrong illegitimate? Not really, b/c there is no causal link between anonymous message boards and camp relations.

I was using your logic, Canuck. You posted, "If a kid is having trouble and would like to talk about it, wouldn't it be right for them to know who you really are; not sugar plum fairy or Ursula?" and "Suppose a kid has problems at home and wants to talk with you abou it: is that the time for her to be talking to Sarah her counselor or to Snow White?" Often people DO come to this board with a problem about which they would like feedback...

I have question for you... you also posted, "Dale Carnegie, one of the foremost experts on human behaviour, wrote a whole chapter of his book on how one's name is that most important word to them. It is crucial for us to use names when we are dealing with people. However, it seems like camps ignore this in favour of tradition?" When a woman marries, is it a good idea for her to trade her maiden name for her husband's last name? If she opts to change her name, are we ignoring who that woman was, "in favour of tradition?"

To answer your questions, lots of children and staff are far more comfortable coming to me as camp director when they need help, than they would be if they addressed me by my name outside of camp. For years kids were willing to relate to me on a camp level (including use of my camp name) in a way that they would not relate to me in the classroom. At camp they could use my camp name; in the classroom they had to revert to more formal address. For those children, that camp name was helpful.

It has been my experience that camp names are fun for kids. Our practice is to tell kids our names at the end of the session, if they ask. Because I'm the director, kids and parents know my real name- it's in the camp brochure, in the parent handbook, etc. For some reason or other (and I don't know the reason) they still address me by my camp name. That's just something they associate with camp, and they enjoy doing it. :-)

I have felt that camp names are fine. I though believe that if a camper or parent asks for your real name then you should give it. What is the harm in saying I go by JumpinJeehosephat at camp and that's what I'll answer to and outside of camp my real name is Gonzo and that's what I'll answer to then. Really, what is the harm in doing that?

Traditions are fine. Yes there have and are harmful traditions out there. Yes, some traditions are cultural based or society based and if you are not part of them then you may believe it's wrong. I mean there are cultures that say the men all have the final say and the women only take care of the family. I may not believe that's right but I did not grow up in that tradition.

Traditions ..... another topic to go into...

I am finding your strategy here extremely annoying and childish. You are picking periphery points of our argument and proceeding to attack them. Furthermore, you are simply providing examples of other areas in society where these fake names are used; and using that fact as proving that camp names are good. WHY DON'T YOU TELL ME WHY CAMP NAMES ARE GOOD INSTEAD OF SPEWING THIS OTHER STUFF?

Anyways, this board is an anonymous message board. I would never come here with a serious problem looking for advice which I will make major decisions on. I may ask for advice and weigh the options, but never in the same way as a true camper/counselor relationship. There actually was once a time when I was looking for some serious advice, and I PM'd CD; and ya wanna know what? We used our real names. **GASP**


That woman is ACTUALLY CHANGING HER NAME. If a camp counselor were to legally change her name to Professor Dumbledore, and that's what she's called at home and camp, then I wouldn't see much of a problem Furthermore, she is not hiding her maiden name. Do me a favour, go up to five married women and ask them what their maiden name was; if any of them refuse to tell you, then I'll further consider this example.


That's just because school tradition is to say Mr/Mrs, there's no reason why you couldn't let your campers use your real name.

CampDirector, I'm going to actually assume that you are a camp director and therefor likely consult a slate of professionals on a regular basis. I'd encourage you to discuss this issue with a psychologist or social worker. I happen to be related to one and wanted to know if I was overreacting on this one. She concurred and thought that the practice of using "camp names" was a really bad and potentially damaging practice. So please discuss this with a professional (that is unbiased) that you consult. Present it in a balanced way (don't minimize it).

As for the "it's a tradition" and "traditions can't be bad" stuff, that is such a bad mentality. Some camps have a tradition of initiation with hazing. Is that okay, though, because they've been doing it forever? Some camps have an extremely competitive tradition where they berate campers for losing. Is that okay? Traditions, on their own, are not a reason to keep doing somethings. They should regularly be reevaluated.

I have to say I'm a bit surprised at all the controversy surrounding camp names. Lol. I work at Girl Scout camp, and never have attended camp where there aren't camp names. I am myself, through and through - it doesn't matter what the kids call me. They can call me Fluke, they can call me Sarah. They regularly call me Flukie or Flukina. I'll answer to any of those. I have a lot of campers that call me Fluke at camp and Sarah outside of camp. That's cool too. At camp, it's slightly less likely that I'll answer to Sarah because generally there are 3-4 of us on staff. It's a bit confusing to know who they are talking too! (As a camper, I was in a unit with 3 other Sarahs - we ended using nicknames the whole week to avoid that problem!)

I've never "refused" to tell a camper my name, nor am I forbidden. I introduce myself to parents as Fluke, and explain that at camp we use nicknames - but that my real name is Sarah and offer to answer any questions that they might have. I have yet to have a camper demand to know my real name - most of mine seem to have a good time trying to come up with what they think your name is by using clues from other campers or staff. At the end of the week, they generally present their "evidence". Returning campers help newbies figure out names. The older campers often talk about how to pick the perfect camp name - one that fits their personality and who they are.

I never have thought of using a camp name to take on a new persona - I do know counselors that believe that though, and it always surprises me. I've very active in the Girl Scout program outside of camp, and Sarah is exactly the same as Fluke! For me, it's just something fun added into camp - same as campfire traditions and dining hall traditions. Sure, traditions change over time. Who knows, camp names might eventually be phased out as well. I'll still be going to camp though - doesn't matter what you call me!

First of all, those of you that are bringing up the fact that this is an anonymous message board and we all have different handles than our real names here are missing the point of this entire conversation by a HUGE margain. To begin with, almost all of us here are staff members, not campers, and I seriously doubt that any of us are going to turn to faceless people we met on the message boards for serious advice. Meeting people at camp and meeting people on the internet are really quite different, I would think that's pretty obvious.

And I, like Gizmo, am not against camp (nick)names as long as a counselor will tell a camper their real name if the camper asks. If the camper knows your name is Bob and decides to call you Thunder instead, great. But that camper should at the LEAST know what your real name is so if they want to use it they can.

I'll post this question for a third time, and I am going to continue to keep posting it until I get a reply. What possible harm could come from telling a camper your real name if they ask?

Boomis... there is no real harm in telling the campers your real name. But, I think that if you decide to tell them your name, the entire staff should be willing to tell campers their real name. Let's say that I tell my campers my real name, but another counselor won't tell them her real name. This won't be good because campers would be like, "Teenster told me her real name!" and running around like crazy. Then the other campers would get jealous and it would snow ball. (I hope that made sense )

This actually did happen at my camp my first summer. One of the counselors told the campers her name. When other campers found out, they begged their counselors for their real name. This created fights between campers and also staff.

- Teenster

I agree with you, and that just goes further to prove the issue at hand here. If ONE staff member decides to tell campers their real name (I would, for instance), it will just create fights and drama between campers and staff where none needs to exist. I dunno, in the grand scheme of things camp names just seem like they are more trouble than they are worth to me.

There's been a bit of discussion earlier on about how a camp name let's you truely express yourself at camp, let's you *be* someone different. To that I say, why can't you be who you really are, regardless of the name? When someone goes to camp, they should feel able to let their true self out, and express themselves however they see fit.

I'm not AGAINST camp names, definitely not in favor of them either. I wouldn't ever take one, but can't hold them against anyone else, either. Camp names are just another tradition that many camps have. It just so happens that this tradition is one that is common to many camps across the country. I wouldn't ever get into an argument about the propper way to hold a closing campfire, or run an all-camp game -- there are diffent traditions at each camp, and each camp has its own traditions that have served it well.

I think that some people won't fully understand the whole Girl Scout Camp name situation unless they have experienced it. I don't understand why it's such a touchy topic.

And I don't think that you can't be objective if you're at a camp with them.

I can understand it: it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, and it's fun.

Please don't suggest we're incapable of discussing something because we haven't experienced it. It's like people telling me I have no business calling President Bush a douchebag because I'm not American.

I can just as easily claim you are brainwashed.

Yes, you don't mess with camp tradition, it only results in bad things happening.

That being said: some traditions suck. And this particular tradition can also be damaging.

There is nothing wrong with camp names - just the mystery the surrounds it. On the first day, tell your kids that your name is Ashley and your camp name is Paris Hilton...is that so hard?

I've seen lots of arguments against camp names - but not a single good argument as to why it's a bad thing to tell campers your real name. Any of you girl scouts wanna give this a shot?

okay, camp names are camp names...if you don't like them or have some kind of issue aganist them don't go to a camp that uses them or if you are at a camp that uses them you have the choice not to use one. WOW, WHAT A THOUGHT!

oh, i was never "traumatized" by having counselors for all of my camper experence that didn't share their real names.

That's like a southerner 150 years ago saying "if you don't like slavery, don't buy one". Just because it's a different camp that employs a certain tactic or practice, I am not prohibited from airing my concern.

Are people here that limited that they really think that just because they haven't been adversely affected by something then no one has?

I'd just like to point out that Boomis, Northwoods, and me are all on the same page here. Does anyone else really have a chance in this debate?

comparing camp names to slavery...hmmm okay...whatever.

i wasn't looking for a fight about this, just trying to make a small point.

if anyone is being limiting, it is the folks that are dominating the post. i was just making a case about my personal experence, anyone can share their stories.

i am sure others, like myself would love to debate this topic...but i want to debate it with people that aren't so hard-core set in their ways.

whatever, attack me for my opinions, but i am not going to attack back.

The issue is not camp names really, the issue is keeping your real name from the campers. If you want to claim that I am "set in my ways" because I believe it's a bad thing being dishonest with campers, feel free. I also know that camp names are SO rooted in tradition that folks here couldn't stop their camps from using them even if they wanted to. Heck, if I went to a camp that used camp names, I'd take one too, although I would make it a point to tell all my campers my real name on day one.

With that in mind, all I want to know is what I've wanted to know from the last posts; what harm could there be in introducing yourself using your real name and then telling campers your camp name if it is so important to you?

boomis to answer your question from my side...

i work at has camp names, it is just part of its history...but if the decided that we would start going by real names, i would be cool with that. i am not so set in my "pro-camp names" ways. i do it because it is part of the tradition at my camp, and i respect that tradition. if i change camps someday, i wouldn't only look at camp that use camp names.

there isn't really much problem with telling a camper your real name. if a person wants to at my camp, they can go right ahead, although you're not allowed to tell other people's names, because it's not something for you to give away.

maybe it's just that I'm bad with names, but I still don't see how people going by a different name is evil. You are not lying about who you are, just what you call yourself. it shouldn't matter what you call yourself, as long as you are yourself.

You guys keep attacking the camp names without telling us why you think that they are harmful. You just say that they are bad. For example:

How are camp names damaging? What ramifications? Tell us a little more intellectually!

And before making others prove why camp names are good, tell us your reasons why they are harmful.

Why don't you tell why they are bad?

First off, Sweetpea, no one has attacked anyone. You're being dramatic.

Secondly, you may say that you'd like to debate but you're not debating at all. You're saying, essentially, it's tradition, don't go to this kind of camp, end of story. Those against camp names are raising points that they feel are legitimate. Those points have not been responded to. So until you respond to some legitimate points, I'm stuck believing that you have no interest in debating the issue. I like how you say that those against camp names are "set in our ways" but we're trying to raise legitimate issues and create real, deeper conversation. Yet the other side, that you seem to feel isn't set in it's way has only responded with "it's tradition", "this is the way that it is and if you don't like it, go somewhere else" or "if hasn't hurt me so it must be okay".

I'm not comparing camp names to slavery and I believe that you are smart enough to see that. I am saying, though, that the mentality that you presented, which was "if you don't like it, go somewhere else" is an extremenly passive mentality. It is one that tells others not to undertake an issue that they feel to be potentially harmful. It's like telling someone against slavery "if you don't like it, just don't own a slave.

Ted, go back and read the entire thread. I've posted reasons why I feel that they are negative. Boomis has. Canuck has. If you want me to go over my points again, I will, but I feel that the first few posts that I made clearly said why I think that camp names are harmful.

Well, it would seem that some people on this board have just finished a basic critical thinking/Logic class, my hats off to ya (you should know who I am talking about). I must say that the issue of camp names is not really all that important, after all camps have been using camp names for years and I don't think this practice had much of an impact on the lives of people i.e. a child hasen't climb to the top of the water tower yet...I must say, the argument of "camp names are [can be]harmful" hasen't been well defended. If your camp favors tradition (which I must admit, I am pretty biased to follow tradition) and uses camp names, good for them. If you disagree, work for another camp. I must go on to say the statement of "some traditions suck" has got to be one of the most lowbrow statements I have ever seen on this board. No one forces you to follow tradition....
P.s. IF you wish to debate me, just IM me, I welcome the challenge.

I also tell my campers that I'm seven and a half years old.

Every summer.

dramatic...okay if you say so.

all i want to say is i don't really see what the big deal is. a name is a name...nickname, real name, camp name. all that really matters is that the campers have a great time at camp, and i really don't see how using a camp name changes that.

why does it matter if camp names are used? camp names, in my opinion are fun! you get to name yourself, something i am sure none of us got to do...we were given our names.

what is all this drama about? i have read the posts and don't see the point of the anti-camp names thing.

you want a debate, fine. it wasn't debating in the first place, i was just putting in my 2-cents in.

the truth of the matter is, one little post isn't going to change anyones mind about the use of camp names...why can't we use our energy on something else...something that will benefit campers.

call me dramatic...i don't give a hoot. stop getting all huffy-puffy about this, everyone just needs to relax

You can't be serious. Oh, you are, aren't you? Worst.

Look: Using a fake name is denying a level of closeness that a counselor is trying to achieve through bonding with their campers. It has NO use, except that it's "tradition." Camp names allow people to hide behind cute personas, rather than let their entire character shine, flaws and all. This has been posted NUMEROUS times. No one has actually said why camp names are beneficial, though their detrimental reasons have been listed.

Gizmo, I disagree and feel that the issue of camp names isn't unimportant. If it was, I wouldn't be discussing this. The issue of "some traditions suck..." you are significantly oversimplifying something and that's contrary to the purpose of discourse. Moreover, the mentality that you oversimplified was in response to the main proponents of camp names who, for the most part, only seem to believe that camp names are a good idea because they are part of a tradition.

The issue of traditions has been raised in a seperate thread but I'd like to know what you feel is wrong with the "some traditions suck" idea? The fact is that some traditions are not good. Traditions of hazing, for example, is not a good thing. Some camps have initiations that involve hazing. So I'm left to think that since you don't feel that a tradition can suck that hazing must be okay since it's a tradition.

I don't believe that every tradition has to be deeply meaningful. Traditions add to the texture of camp and I love the meaningless traditions. But I really don't know what your problems is with examining the traditions that may be potentially negative to see if it's time to eliminate them. My sentiment and other's sentiments regarding tradition was simply posted in response to the "well, it's a tradition" mentality.

Sweatpea, you're the one who brought up the debate issue. And I don't think that this is a little thing. I think it's a legitimate issue. As for your statement that "all that matters is that campers have a great time at camp", this is why I am trying to dig into this issue. I think that camp is a lot more about kids having a great time for a few weeks. It's about growth, emotional development, and gaining skills to succeed in life.

It is because of this that I don't like camp names. I believe that camp names thwart this development. I'll state it very clearly again (for some people who don't think that a point has been made). Camp is about relationship building. It's about honesty, openness, self realization, and so on. I believe that when trying to develop that relationship, some people will have problems when they are using fake names. As far as the self development and growth goes, when you have this made up name, you can promote a lack of true honesty with ones self.

i didn't start it

what if i camper camp to camp with a camp name, would you feel there was a lesser conection with them because they liked to be called by a different name?
frankly, this is to much drama for me. i joined this message board to learn from other camp staffers. sure, debating and having convos is great, i love it...but frankly i just don't care right now to keep going back and forth on this issue.

i have said it once, and i will say it again...no ones mind is going to be changed on this "issue" by our posts.

i am out of this post. call me a quiter, a whiner, a drama queen, a weakling...i don't give a care in the world what you call me because i know who i am, i am sweet pea / s.p. / pea that is sweet / pea pod / petite pois / a.j. / joey / string bean / bic / lobster / miss steinbring - same person with a ton of names!

so, hear's one reason not to use your real name; stalker-campers. if a camper knows your name (and this has happened to one person i know), it's not too hard to get your address. while generally this is okay, there are some campers out there that you don't want to be in contact with, or...it brings up the same issuses as giving campers your address or email, except there is a level of added creepyness because, well, you didn't.

It also brings up privacy issues about your life outside of camp. if a camper learns your name, discovers that you are actually a dirty romance novelist (??), even if you are and were an upstanding counselor, it would reflect badly on the camp (granted, they hired you) even if it shouldn't. and possibly traumatize the camper. It brings up questions of how much your outside life (assuming you have one) is or is not part of camp.

Someone else mentioned parents calling up and harassing staff.

These are about as likely as someone being traumatized by the use of a nickname.

Wow. I posted on Saturday, and we're already on page three. We're passionate, all right!

After reading all three pages, I decided that I would never be able to convince anti-camp namers that camp names are NOT bad, especially Boomis, Canuck, and Northwoods. (No disrespect there- I think you are doing well by your opinions to post here.) I decided instead to post reasons SUPPORTING camp names.

1. Anonymity and privacy. As mentioned several times before, campers DO come too close for comfort sometimes. Usually this contact can be managed and is often welcome, but there are some campers I didn't give my home address to because I didn't want them showing up on my doorstep. Nothing personal against those campers- I still loved them just as much as their tabinmates- but I don't give my home address out. Period. If a camper knew my real name, the entire purpose behind that privacy wall would be moot.

2. Authority. At my camp, only PAs, CITs, and staff have camp names. Campers know EXACTLY who they must listen to by saying the person's name. This is very helpful, as our PAs are in 8th grade and we get many 8th-10th grade campers who would be indistinguishible from the PAs and CITs for the younger campers.

3. The Guessing Game. Sometimes the intent of using camp names is simply to give the campers a challenge. I DO tell campers my real name if they write to me afterwards, but not during the camp session. If a camper GUESSES my name, I may tell them they are right on the last day. Sometimes I give little hints during the week as rewards for good behavior or as a part of the guessing game. It's all in good fun, really- I have never seen a camper crying because their counselor would not tell them her real name. If it's that big an issue with a camper, staff members will tell them their real names. This makes the camper feel that much more special, because they know and no one else does. So there's a double self-esteem boost for all the psych majors out there.

4. Closeness. I was raised, as most Americans are, to use the formal first name for friends and the respectful "Mr" etc. format for adults. Close friends got a nickname. Sometimes they chose it, sometimes I did. Either way, we were both happy with the name and felt comfortable using it. I felt WAY closer to a friend after being allowed to use a nickname and was that much more likely to come to them for help when I needed it. I experienced this same increased closeness with my counselors as a camper. (I've gone as a camper from age 8 to 18.) Camp names are not only easier to remember, but they made me feel instantly more friendly with my counselors. Even though I had only known them for a few minutes, I felt more comfortable approaching them for help.

5. Pronunciation. This too has been mentioned before. My camp's counseling staff is composed almost half of internationals. Many of them told me their names as I left CIT, and I couldn't pronounce most of what I heard without writing it down first. If I can't do it, I can't imagine an 8-year-old succeeding.

I thought that I would also explain the original reasons for using camp names as it was explained to me. Way back when camps were small and travel was hard over long distances, teachers and other adults in the local community would volunteer to be staff. To make the camper who got her teacher as her counselor feel less like she was in a classroom and to increase her comfort level being herself (not her quiet "six inch voice" SCHOOL self, but her loud, crazy SUMMER self), the teacher would pick a camp name. Now the camper wouldn't be as afraid to speak to her counselor in a more free manner, as opposed to the normal teacher-student relationship.

I hope that was comprehensible... it's late and I'm tired, so please ask and I shall clarify if needed. :p

Wow- three pages on this! :-) There are many traditions inherent in camps. The traditions embodied in the culture of a specific camp are part of what makes that camp special. Many of you understand that camp is awfully difficult to explain to someone who has not lived the life of a camp staff person. The value of camp names- like other traditions- is probably difficult to appreciate if a person has not worked in a setting that uses them. I don't think it is important that people agree with the concept of using camp names here- that isn't the purpose of this board. I do think people should respect the fact that some camps use them and some do not. Would it be acceptable for everyone to agree to disagree?

Privacy? I don't get the whole privacy issue with names and having a camp name. I mean as a staff person if you feel you need some privacy from the campers by keeping your real name private from the kids I hope you're not a teacher. It goes to figure that if you are worried about you're privacy with kids then you'd be worried about it at a school teaching kids. I.e, if you're worried about campers finding out where you are won't you be worried about students finding out where you are as well? Your campers are your students during the summer. Yes, as a counselor you are a "teacher".

Sharing your real name is a sign of respect. I feel camp names are fine, but as I've stated that your real given name should not be withheld. Not handing out addresses is fine.

Anyway, I'm losing my train of thought right now so I'm going to sign off of this topic.

Again camp names are fine in my opinion as long as you are willing to share your real name.

Just a quick response to this. Campers get a lot closer to their counselor, than students to teachers. Counselors live with their campers, and there is a lot more conntact, you see these kids 24/7. A teacher only sees his/her students for about 7 hours a day, or less. I do think that if there was "stalking" issue, a camper would be more likely to "stalker" their counlser, and not their teacher.

I have had problems with privacy, and the camp names do help. Two summers ago I gave my e-mail address to two campers that I got pretty close to. We started e-mailing, and that was fine. On my e-mail, the topic heading said it was sent by Tina. So, those two campers found out my real name (they didn't ask at camp), no big deal. Then a few weeks later my cell phone rang with a number that I had never seen before... it was one of the campers, they had done a quick search on the internet... and they got all of my information. Then the campers gave my number to some of their other camper friends, and they started to call. One day I got phone calls from about four campers. This also happened with my aim screen name, so I had to change that. For the most part everything has slowed down, but I still get a phone call every now and then, so I ignore it. It's not like I don't like talking to campers during the off season, but this was an extreme... there needs to be some space.

I totally get the privacy thing. Not sure if this has happened to anyone else (with or without a camp name) but it is crazy.

- Teenster

Here's something to wonder about. If staff are able to have camp names what about the campers? Are your CIT's staff or campers what are they labeled as? I mean the majority are under 18 thus not an adult. What about the kids privacy? Where does privacy begin and end? Who decides what is private or not? Where does the trust start? Respect? Honesty?

SweetPea, although you have taken you ball and went home, I did want to point out the utter ridiculousness of your "what if a camper came to camp with a camp name" comment. First off, I would likely KNOW THAT CAMPERS REAL NAME. Second off, I would not be too hurried to start calling a camper Snowball II or Santa's Little Helper simply because they asked me too. Their parents gave them a name for a reason. If they are proposing a nickname, and it is appropriate and in good fun, then I'd consider it.

Calico, I don't buy the anonymity argument. Our society is not an anonymous society. If camp counselors are like Mary Poppins, where they show-up for the summer and proceed to dissapear from the face of the eart, then I think we have a problem. Would you, as a camper, really want to develop a rapport with someone whom you may never see again?

Your arguments on authority, closeness, and pronounciation, don't suggest why camps can't provide nicknames and tell campers real names. Furthermore, a good staff member should be able to command authority simply because they are a good staff member - not because of some superficial name.

The guessing game argument is an example of another bad tradition that does more harm than good (up there with overly-competitive colour wars that they staff get into moreso than the campers)...on a strict utilitarian scale, the benefits from the guessing does not outweigh the damages it may cause.

ahhh, well northwoods, it seems you didn't see the forest through the trees. The problem I had with "some traditions suck" is not the fact that some traditions need to be changed or not, as much as it was the fact the statement "Some traditions suck" could have been presented in a batter way. I would like to point out that people have been ripping each other over this, a better more productive debate, would be "how to punish a camper" or "what is the best way to deal with kids who have AS". This whole camp names issue is baseless and utter bunk, after all there is no infomation showing that camp names are in fact harmful nor it there showing they are helpful. I was simply stating that tradition is a good argument FOR the use of camp names. Traditions like "hazing" can be harmful---after all most of us can give examples of the harmful effects of hazing taken too far. However no one has really shown how camp names can be harmful, they are just giving theories on how they are harmful. Oh, and just because people are talking about an issue does not mean that issue is important.

Gizmo, if you don't like the discussion, then don't bother opening the messages. I feel very strongly that camp names can be rather harmful.

CITs (11th-12th grade) and Program aides and assistants (7th-12th grade) have camp names. This is because they are leading a majority of the activities for the younger campers they have. I look at getting a camp name as a right of passage. You get a camp name when you acquire a leadership postion, and CITs and PAs are in a leadership postion. Campers that aren't CITs or PAs don't have camp names. Those campers look forward to the day that they get their camp name... they are really excited about it when it does happen. I have had PAs fight over what camp name they would have. Camp names are a big deal to the campers, well at least at my camp.

- Teenster

Says you. I would say that you are having a problem seeing the forest through the trees due the the very limited view that you have of what is going on here and on what people are saying.

Gizmo, go back and read all the posts that have been written on the tradition argument. Go read the new subject that has emerged on this subject. I think that you'll be able to see that people have been very suscinct in their feelings on tradition. It's clear that people expanded well beyond an argument of "some traditions suck".

Again, I guess this is why I see that you are not seeing the forest from the trees because I think that this is a big issue. I think that this points directly the concept of self identification and growth, two of the bigger benefits of camp.

What is the purpose of discourse, then? Should we only be talking about things that we have quantitative proof on? There are many issues that are, at one time, "utter bunk" but people choose to thing, ask and look deeper and realize that it's more then utter bunk. And just because you say it's utter bunk doesn't make it so. I'm putting this out there on the hope that either camp directors at camps with camp names or even staff at such camps think a bit deeper and perhaps pose these questions with professionals. I did and was given the input that with issues like self identification and relationship building, camp names are potentially harmful. Sorry if you are offended that I believe someone with an MSW over you.

Gizmo, you are not the only one here. And people were stating that camp names must be okay because they're a tradition. Tradition, on it's own, is not reason for anything. Tradition should not prevent people from examining that tradition.

Yeah, people have presented theories. Again, do you wish that we only discuss issues with quantitative proof of? Or perhaps you'd like to be the subject cop and anything that Gizmo says is "utter bunk" should be immediately thrown out of discussion. People have given theories and perhaps some people will find it worthwhile to discuss this issue with a variety of professionals. And if you don't feel that this issue is important, there are hundreds of other ones that you can choose to care about.

Teenster, as a teacher, let me assure you I get equally close to some of my students as I do to my campers. After all, I am seeing these students for nine full months, and many of them participate in extracurricular activities that I am also involved in. I may not see them as much as I would see a certain camper in say 2-4 weeks, but I can assure you that I am getting close to them.

Calico I must say very good post there. You definetely marshaled your arguments well and present them in an organized fashion. Now, for the rebuttal. :-)

First, I think the entire privacy argument just doesn't hold water. I think Teenster's example of a camper finding her real name and then getting her cell number is an extreme one; I'm not even sure how they would go about that. Heck, I can't find MY cell number online and I know a lot more about me than just my name. Anyway, in six summers of camping, I've had plenty of campers email me, but so far none of tried to call me or 'show up on my doorstep', as some of y'all seem to be afraid of. If you are seriously worried about it, the best way to defeat that is to give campers a "camp screen name", one that has no attachments to your real identity and one you only sign on under when you want to talk camp.

Regarding the authority issue, if a staff member cannot make their authority known without having to have a camp name to back it up, they aren't doing a very good job. Even if you have say 8th grade staff members and 8th grade counselors, those young staff members should absolutely not be working with campers their age or older, so the authority issue wouldn't come up. Most campers know who that staff are, and even if they don't, how hard is it to tell them once? Not very.

In re to the guessing game, I play it with kids all the time. The difference is, I usually run with a "Where am I from?" theme for a session instead of "What is my name?". I think the guessing game is great, but I also think there are ways that it can be played which do not involve you being dishonest with campers about your real name. I will be honest in that I don't understand the closeness point you raise, either. I don't feel any closer to campers or students based on whether they call me by my first or last name. I can see where that idea would be there, but I think it's a false conception.

All that being said, why are camp names harmful? For those of you like Tom who haven't been reading all the posts, I can lay out the arguments in a neat precise fashion as Calico was so kind to do for the pro side.

1. Honesty. Let's face it, by not telling a camper you real name if they ask for it, you are basically lying to them. I think lying to kids is something that should be avoided in general, even though it goes without saying we can't tell them the whole truth all the time. Still, when it's something so basic like your name you refuse to tell them, I can't see that being dishonest about it is a good thing.

2. Individuality. What is one thing kids at camp learn almost above all others? That it is OK to be themselves! Unless, of course, you are a staff member at camp in which case you should make a false name and live THAT persona at camp. True, it's been said that many people are the same wehther they are called Bob or Thunder, but do you really think kids can make that fine distinction? Especially younger ones! All they see is that their counselor is using a false name, so that leads to the question- is it really ok to be themselves when their counselor doesn't seem to be?

3. Expectations. Taking off that point above, some people are NOT the same person at camp as they are in the outside world. I think that everybody really should be. Now obviously you can't go doing the things in your workplace that you do at camp, but you should at least be able to fully be yourself in any social situation. My behavior at camp and my behavior with my friends is very similar; and the reason for that is because both accept me for who I am. Camp names kinda encourage people to act more uninhibited and differently at camp. That's a good thing at camp, but maybe not really getting the point across. Especially as many camp counselor are still college-aged or younger, and from my perspective at least that is when a person really finds out who they are in life. Staff at camp grow too, and I think camp names inhibit that.

Those are the three main points. There are other sub-points too, but they all basically spring from those three issues as far as I am concerned. I'm not having this discussion just to be stubborn, I am having it to encourage a healthy debate on a subject that many people obviously feel strongly about. When it's all said and done I highly doubt we'll change anybody's minds, but that doesn't mean that this debate isn't worth having so both sides can at least understand each other better.

Let's take a look at the debate that you have so well "proven the harm of camp names" - A few of the non-camp-namers argue that camp names don't allow campers & counselors to get close. Those who use camp names keep saying, "yes! our campers are close to us!! They trust and talk with us! We loved it as kids and love it as counselors!" But you keep saying, "no, this can't be!"

Non-camp-namers say it hides identity. But others say camp names allows part of the identity to come to the forefront.

Noncamp namers say that camp is to prepare young people for the cruel hard world. Camp namers say that camp is a chance to be relieved from real life stressors.

Linny says, "Camp names allow people to hide behind cute personas, rather than letter their entire character shine, flaws and all." Does this mean you share your lush tendancies character flaws with campers? Or do you hide part of your identity? Stick to creative writing and keg parties.

In the end it is a trust issue if you keep your real name secret. Yes, the campers trust you at camp and how you are their "adult" in charge but in the end not telling them your real name means they don't have your trust and/or respect. I know the person in charge of payroll always called everyone by their given name. So the summer we had 8 Jennifers she would never mention anyone by their "nicknames". If you keep your real name secret due to the possibility of campers stalking you then you don't trust your campers to be polite and respectful outside of camp. Yes, it's a "cool" thing to do and in reality camp names, in my opinion, are not a bad thing.

Respect and trust and honesty goes a long way and it is a two way street. To not tell the parents your name, to me, is showing a lack of trust and respect. I mean they've shown you one of the greatest trusts available by allowing their kid(s) to attend your camp and be in your care. In my opinion if a parent asks for your name then I would respectfully tell them my name.

Also no one is going to really agree here on this issue and most are on one end or another. Doesn't seem like many of us are in the middle here.

You've all been saying that we should worry about the few and far between campers that are traumatized by our use of camp names, but we should ignore the issue of the few and far between campers that give their counselors unwanted attention outside of camp.

there's also another issue of protecting against the future. If a counselor comes to camp after her senior year in high school, is a phenominal counselor, but then fails out of college the next year, looses sight of her dreams and gets addicted to crack, would it be better for the campers she inspired to have all their dreams crushed when they learn that their counselor Jane Doe froze to death last night in front of the court house as a crack whore? or would it be better for them to have shining dreams of their role model counselor Foo-foo until reality and cynical old age tarnishes it?

Camp seems to be an intentionally constructed society built around keeping campers safe and happy. There are lots of things that campers aren't told to "keep them safe."

Life happens, counselors are not immortal or necessarily pure. Camp is no longer the bubble it used to be. Ahh, the tradition of camp as a bubble now that's another topic....

Traumitized is really a word I don't think any of us has used. I doubt that camp names are going to cause any serious life-wrecking harm to campers. The argument simply is that they may bring up some subtle issues that staff and campers may simply not be aware of.



On the flip side, what if that same counselor graduates with honors from college and goes on to become a famous philanthropist? Is it better for campers to see that good counselors become great people and have that excellent example to look up to, or would it be better for them to never know that their role model counselor made it in the "real" world? You just can't base arguments like this on what MIGHT happen in the future; nobody knows.

And TedRocks, if you pretend you are perfect to your campers, you are the one that needs to stick to keg parties and creative writing. Yes, I do let my campers know I am not perfect. I may not share the initimate details with them, but if you live with somebody for any period of time they'll figure out you are as human as anybody. Which is as it should be, no?

I think they got it through my school's web site. There is a thing where you can search for students. If a student is still living in the dorm (that's me) then all of their info is posted. I don't use my dorm phone, so when the school needs one, or anyone else for that matter, I give them my cell. Yes, this was extreme... I've set up a different e-mail account, and give that address to campers.

- Teenster

Well I'm sorry that you have such a limited view on the functions and purposes of camp. I think that some of your camp directors and parents also would be somewhat disapointed. Parents send their kids to camp to have fun but also so that they grow and develop as individuals. Parents aren't sending their kid to camp and paying at times upwards of $7,000 for their kid to just have fun. They expect more and so should all of us. You may call my mentality "prepar(ing) young people for the cruel hard world". I call it giving kids the tools and resources to thrive in life.

But here are some of what our camp websites say the purpose of camp is:

Website one- Website two- Website three- Website four- Four camp websites from people who post here. None of these are the camp that I work at. These are the words of the directors. My point is this, though, camp is about more than an being an escape for the summer. My goal; for none of us here to underestimate what our roles and influences are this summer.

One, I was talking about the phrase "Some Traditions suck", the phrase in and of itself, not what is connected to it or how people have expanded. Which is why I stated you can't see the forest through the trees. Second off, this topic is bunk because people can argue back and forth and there is no concrete infomation to back up any claims. Third off I never made any claims for you to take to someone with a MSW, Why you would even say that is beyond me. By the way, ask ten different Social Workers this question and you'll more than likely get thirteen different answers.

The tradition argument so far is the strongest argument presented. The other arguments for camp names are lacking to say the least. The argument of "subtle issues camp names may bring up" isn't really doing to well, after all people are saying they are agnist camp names because they are harmful but are not really showing this harm or how camp names would hurt a child.

Bottom line, No one is really putting there honey in the sweet spot, and some people are getting down right nasty (I'm sorry if I offened anyone). I would like to remind people that arguments are only as valid as the proof. Is what I say really that important? No, not at all. Is this topic bunk? From an argumentitive stand point, by all that trancends yes it is. Why am I still posting about this topic? Heck, school's and my friend's school doesn't get out for another day or so....

Oh wow I thought this was some old topic somebody had bumped. I had no idea I was missing out on some action! Why didn't somebody tell me?!

Anyway, I've never really considered camp names to be an issue, or at least this big of one. Of course, where I've worked we've never had them. Oh sure we've had walkie-talkie names for the administrators and Pirate names for pirate week (that was fun...I still call some of my camp friends by their pirate names). I never thought about not telling a child my real name though.

I dunno...I kinda feel that this whole issue is being blown out of proportion. I mean, a name is a name. Whether you go by Johnny, Beth, Stimpy, Batman, Pocohontas, Jo-jo the happy monkey, or any number of other names, it's what you are called. Different people know you by different names. It doesn't really matter what you're called, as long as people know who you are.

That said, I also feel like camp names or nick-names are designed to be fun, not take the place of your real name. If you want to go by something at camp, that's fine, but it needs to be in fun and not designed to hide who you really are. If somebody wants to know your real name then I think they should be entitled to that.

I do not like blanket camp policies or unwritten policies that all staff are to have a camp name and not tell the children their real name. To a degree, I do feel like that is dishonest. Fire whatever explanations and justifications you have, but I guess I feel like that the campers should have the opportunity to know who their counselors "really are."

And really, that's what those of us who don't like camp names have been saying all along for the most part. Those folks who use camp names and either refuse to tell their campers their name when asked or don't tell them until they are about to leave obviously just disagree with us, that's all.

Gizmo, let's put psychology aside and keep things simple.

Camp names are dishonest. You are withholding one of the most important pieces of information about yourself from impressionable young people. Is that really the type of lessons we want to teach at camps?

Well, as I have said in other posts, camp names are ok just as long as you give your real name when asked.

So why exactly are you arguing with us?

Here's what I think, in standard steam of consciousness: You are a real creep, people like you make me vomit, personal attacks are immature, don't judge me, you don't know me, go to hell, a long list of obscenities, etc, etc, etc.

Hm, creative writing sure is tough what with all this beer I'm greedily consuming at the moment!

Yes, I said flaws and all. But obviously, an alcoholic shouldn't work at a summer camp. Neither should an asshole, so why are you still employed? People are all flawed, and their characters are not all peaches and cream.

The fact that you wrote such a hateful, ignorant comment leads me to believe you are a sad person. Unfortunately, not all counselors are good counselors. What could possibly provoke you to write such a nasty personal attack? You don't know me at all, and I have no idea why you would assume that I'm a regular at keg parties. It infuriates me that I work my butt off at one of the top universities in the country, and people like you make unfounded judgments and brandish soaring inferiority complexes. Just because I don't agree with your precious camp names does not give you the right to insult me. Grow up.

OK whoa!

Let's all take a step back here, I don't think this discussion is going anywhere but downhill. Obviously, Tedrocks' comments about linny were totally out of line, and I can understand why she is upset. However, coming back with another personal insult is just going to lead us down a nasty road nobody really wants to go down.

I suggest we end this thread here and now. I think it's clear nobody is going to change anybody's mind, and it's an issue that's so rooted in tradition and camp experience for some people that it obviously evokes some strong feelings on both sides of the issue. Further debate on this topic is pointless, I believe. I am going to, as Canuck likes to say, "take my ball and go home". What the rest of you do is of course up to you but I am removing myself from this debate because all it is doing is going in vicious circles at this point.

Linny, I'd just like to say, Go Girl!! Now that the swearing barrier has been broken, I'd like to say that I agree that Ted is an asshole. I'd also like to say that I enjoy a good keg party, but I'm also a damn good camp staffer.

Just looking to define the "take your ball and go home" statement. It refers to those who self-proclaim a high road by leaving a conversation, resigning from a committee, etc., mainly because they are not getting their way and feel that by leaving everyone will feel like they are being punished for being wrong. I'm not suggesting Boomis is doing this - but Boomis, couldn't you have just ignored the thread as opposed to preaching your higher moral stance?

Keg party? Did someone say keg party? Where? When?

Wow this subject blew up when I wasn't looking.

I have worked at camps with camp names and without. I am a Jr. I grew up as "Rand" because my father went by "Randle." WHen I got my first job I started going by Randle, all through college and now my wife know me as Randle but to my familuy I am still Rand. At my first Camp I aquired the Camp name Dub. It is unusual in this debate because it was a Day Camp that even flowed into Afterschool programs. We were pretty open with parents what our real names were, when campers guessed we admitted it. The campers AND Parents CHOSE to call us by our camp names. THey saw the value and fun of having the different name. I have walked the aisles of the grocery store and heard "Dub!" at the top of a camper's lungs. It is fun and when the real name is open though slightly concieled it is harmless. No one has offerd a compelling argument otherwise.

Then we are almost all in agreement. I have read all of the posts here. (Man do I need to get back to work) In most instances the counselors with camp names say they tell campers at the end of the session. In one instance a poster said they don't tell at the end of the session but will post camp if a camper asks by mail or e-mail.

THey have all said that they DO share their names with campers. It is not an "I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you." type of thing at a vast majority of camps.


I do understand the passion of those who feel it is lying and decieving to the campers, however I have seen first hand (as I've been at both camps that have camp names and those who do not) THere is no lack of trust. A bad counselor who can't connect is still a bad counselor who can't connect. And a great counselor could be called Weasel and still be much beloved.

THis is true and it does not matter what they call you they still develop that bond and after finding out the name on your birth certificate they still WANT to call you by that camp name.

Early on Canuck argued that Carnige was right when he said that names have power and he is right. Campers love it when you see them in the off season and you know them by name. Their eyes light up. Knowing someone's name is powerful but that does not mean that having a fun name that you are known by at camp is a falsehood. It is simply the name that is connected with the work you do at camp.

Great convo ya'll. I am sorry to see some people are hurt in this but it does show the passion with wich we all see the work we do and I commed you all on your passion.

Campdub, good points and it's frustrating that this conversation turned from an acutal conversation to a spar on the nature of debate. That took away, again, from something that I find to be a real issue.

To me, even if camp names are just fun and don't do any harm (which I feel that they have the potential to), they create a level of disconnect between people's camp lives and their "real world" lives. I don't like this disconnect and I don't find it to be necessary. I think that this clear cut where campers will then go back into the real world and resume their "real name" gets in the way of the work we do at camp. Campers and staff grow, learn and develop at camp. We should be encouraging everyone to take what they learn and gain at camp and take that with them the rest of the year. If they develop leadership skills at camp, they should take that and apply that to the rest of their life. Having a different name, being identified as something else, to me, risks disconneting one's camp self from one's "real world" self. We should be encouraging everyone to look at camp as part of their real world life, not the escape that they have for a few weeks during the summer.

this has turned into an interesting topic! such great use of colorful language! But don't worry my feelings aren't hurt too much. Thanks for your thoughts though.

I shared this post in a sociology class today. After we wiped the the tears from laughter we had a great talk about how trust develops between people and between groups of people. We also talked about how easy it was for people to show hatred for a person with a "site-nick-name" but so hard for people to see that trust or goodwill can be shared between people only knowing nicknames.

I mean I am nothing but a name on a web site, right? but some of you can be brought to hositle aggression against that nickname. Why don't you think that you could be brought to compassion and trust by only knowing a person's camp name as easily as you turn to anger against a site-name?

What academic institutions are holding classes on December 22 Ted?

Havent checked the boards fr a few days and suddenly theres this huge debate going on!
I have just sat and read every single one of these posts and my opinion is...

I have a camp name. At first I hated it, why did kids have to call me some ridiculous name? Now i realise that I am somebody different at camp. At home, I am niks, struggling poor English student who spends 9 months of the year waiting to go to camp and working like a dog to afford it. At camp I become Wallie, bit wacky international with a passion for wallmart, one tin soldier, platforms tents and smores.

My name distinguishes me at camp. The campers couldnt care less if i was called niks, wallie, tom dick or harry. As long as I am there to deer nuzzle at bed time, re start the fire that died during cookout, and start a fairly good rendition of the moose song on the solhiem trail (ridiculously long and hilly trail to get to camp)
then I can be just as close to the kids. Im not putting up a barrier, they all end up knowing my name, im just being wallie.

I also think that the people who have such a bad opinion of camp names should ask every single girl scout what she thinks. Cause it is in the majority of girl scout camps that have camp names and I dont think ive met a scarred for life one yet!

Niks/wallie I think that your example points to why camp names are a bad thing. You mention how you have two different personas, one at camp and one at home. Your person at home is the person who struggles for nine months to get to camp. Your camp person is someone who is wacky, etc. Why do we need to differentiate between these two people? Why you can't be Niks at camp, who people know how hard you work to get to camp and who is wacky and fun at camp. Any why can't you be wallie at home, taking the best parts of who you are at camp and at home?

My concern is not about us as staff who can see the difference, it's for the nine-year-old who is Twizzler at camp, a popular, fun and outgoing leader, but is Jenny at home, someone who is a quiet follower. As a camp counselor I want Jenny to know that who she is at camp is the person that she is and that she should take the leadership skills that she learns at camp and use them at gome. I don't want her to be a happy and excited Twizzler for two months and a passive unhappy Jenny for ten months, I want her to know that she can be the fun and creative kid all year long.

Camp names further promotes this myth that we need to have camp selves and non-camp selves.

Wow I responded to this post on when it was first brought up, left town to return and see this 3 page debate....very interesting.

I find it very interesting that so many people are this passionate about the cmap name issue. I guess, I never thought about it being bad. I grew up at camps with camp names and I turned out fine (or so I'm told).

I like camp names because it allows the staff to throw off all previous labels when they get to camp. We don't name ourselves when we are born unless you are Peak-A-Boo Street. Creating a camp name allowed me to create my own identity. Some may think that it means it allowed me to seperate from the real world and I would have to say it did not. If anything, it allowed me to become who I am because I named myself and that confidence has overflowed into my life outside of camp. Might not make a whole lot a sense to those who never have used camp names. But for me, I grew up at camps where they had them and the went to work at camps that have them. I guess I never really examined the effect of camp names.

There have been some very interesting theories and opinions on this topic and I would say some of you seem very passionate about this.

I am all for camp names because they are fun and well, they don't hurt the kids...honestly, I have never heard any complaints except on this board.

But keep it going, because personally I find it extremely fasinating that this length of debate is just on camp names.

Camp names have become sucha longstanding traition that I think I don't even think of it has an issue because they have always been there. I will ponder your thoughts....maybe I missed something and your post will clearify it.

None of the camps I have gone to or worked for allow the kids to have camp names. Some of my fellow campers would ocme up with them but the counselors never called us them, only our realy name.

Are they camps out there that allow the kids to have camp names...

hmmm...i can't remember if i replied to this one before but anyway...i don't think that an "official" camp name is necessary, i think the kids should know the counselors' real names. i can't believe that the other counselors don't ever slip and call a counselor by his or her real name...that would be tough for me to do! at my camp we do a lot of calling people by their last name or a shortened version of their last name, or a combination of someone's first and last name together (that gets funny sometimes) but we all know each others' real names, campers and counselors. if camp names are part of a camp's tradition and they aren't hurting anyone, well, to each his own, i just don't agree with not knowing the counselor's real name at all...it just seems sketchy to me, like why wouldn't you want your campers to know your real name if they asked? i feel like a nickname should come naturally to someone too, that a person shouldn't just say "ok guys i want you all to call me Bob now!" did i make ANY sense w/this post? haha.

yes some staff slip and call them by their real names, but this isn't often since it's such a longstanding tradition that the names are used from day one of staff training. We have friends, family work together and campers that are related to staff. IT works out ok, I guess you would have to expereince it to believe it....it's really not as a big of deal as some make it it seem. It becomes very normal yet fun.

Slipping happens quite often at my camp... not sure why. Most of us prefer to go by real names on the weekends. This is because when you are in Meijer, and someone yells "HEY TWIZZLER!" that is is alittle weird (unless it's a camper ). The slipping happens during the last couple of weeks. I have been called Tinaster on many occations. Funny... most of the campers don't notice.

- Teenster

Apologies Northwoods, you clearly mistook my point.

To be the same person at camp and at home is not possible. For me, and I know for a fact other people on this board.

That aside, dont you think you are getting a little to profound and psychosocial about this?

I think if little jenny is hiding behind twizzler, she has more problems beneath the surface that stem from things other than her alter ego.

A camp name is a tradition and a bit of fun. Maybe its my naivity or my nationality that thinks this. Not being American, I am the first to admit I don't fully understand the effect camp has on the american culture, but Im sure when one of our little girl scouts becomes the first female President, when asked "how did girl scout camp affect your life?", her response will not be "Camp Names scarred me for life, and now I only go by 'President Stubby" because I hide behind my alter ego in order to succeed".

Im going to a camp this year that doesn't use camp names. I asked my director if he minded if I still went by camp name. His answer was, "be called whatever you want, as long as you do a great job". So I will continue to go by my camp name until someone says I cant, in which I will go by my real name.

Much like SP, Im outta this debate, because although I feel these boards are great for debating camp issues as well as naming our favourite desserts, this is a pointless debate in which neither party will agree, or even agree to disagree, and 125 postings at last count is more than slightly ridiculous, with some, if not most posts, not debating a point, but merely making 'jibes' at other posters.

Hopefully we will have another posting like this which provokes as much interest, but where both parties can see the others point of view (I am including myself in this!).

ps - Happy Yuletide.

I had no idea this topic would become so controversial. I understood both sides of the argument when my camp was dealing with it, and I still agree with bits and pieces of almost every perspective I've heard so far. I haven't read all of the replies because I haven't had internet in a while and I don't have the patience to read 125 posts, but I skimmed over them and was rather shocked at some of the things I read. Regardless of what you think about the matter, I really hope that, especially as a camp counselor, you are open-minded and a good listener. Be respectful of other's opinions and withhold your own biases when considering other perspectives. Discussion is one thing, close-eared debate is another.

I know I shouldn't do this since I'm trying to end this chaos, but against my better judgment I'm going to express two of my views that side with both arguments (for safety reasons, camp spirit aside), just to close this off:

1. Unlike teachers, camp counselors are typically young, considered to be more unprofessional, and are often in college... why does this matter? Because this age group is stereotypically less trustworthy than a teacher with a masters degree. Again, why does that matter? If a camper gets ahold of a counselor's real name, there is a lot of information that can be found out, especially nowadays with the internet. I know of a counselor who was the victim of a fraudulent sexual harassment claim. A camper found the counselor's email address using his/her name, and created a fraudulent email in which the counselor made inappropriate sexual comments and requests of the camper. There was a lawsuit, and it ruined the counselor's reputation. Finally, the camper admitted his/her lie and all charges were dropped.
Also, while camp counselors hopefully are not doing too many "unmentionable acts" when off duty, college-aged youth are notorious for partying and all of that good stuff... some campers aren't that young, maybe only a year or two younger than a counselor. If they are from the same town, or in similar social groups, the camper might be exposed to hearing stories about the counselor where, had the counselor gone by a camp name, the camper would not be as likely to associate the counselor with the stories.

2. Imagine a camper going home and telling his/her mom or dad that Jelly Bean touched his/her private parts. The parents are going to want a real name. Depending on the age of the camper, talking to Minnie Mouse might be more difficult than talking to Susie about how he or she was being molested at home.

Now, a letter could be sent home during the week, introducing yourself (the counselor) to the parents, explaining the camp name and revealing your real name, and ideally even saying a little about their child. But there are still arguments against this, as well... even beyond mailing costs, heh.

I know everyone is going to want to post another reply now, but I'd rather everyone just consider the issues, no matter where you presently stand, and make sure that whatever you decide, it's for the right reasons.

This issue severely divided my staff two summers ago. We had a new director and one of the biggest changes that he made was prohibiting camp names. Of course there was a huge rebellion, many discussions and attempt at compromise, but it ended with the staff hating the new Director. After adjusting to the new environment, and having a huge turnover rate in staff, camp names are used by some, although real names are revealed if asked, and the Director is no longer viewed as evil.

Please, as someone who has been through a few years of this sort of divide, don't let Director/Staff issues ruin the summer for the kids. Even if you disagree with something, don't let the kids suffer because of it.

I'll end it with that.

the camp i have been at for the last 2 summers uses camp names...i think its a great idea...it might seem crazy but for us internationals its something different. It also keeps the kids from confusion if u have a number a staff with the same name...i know we had lots of jennifers and rebeccas among the staff...so im all for camp names!
If the campers asked for our names we could tell them if we wanted but they also have fun attempting to guess

Camp names also make it a lot easier for the kids to even be able to pronounce a lot of the internationals' names... it's easier for them to say than most Russian names, let alone anything else, plus easier for them to remember when they are so unique

I work at a girl scout camp and we use camp names. I think that they are a great thing and a great tradition of camp mintahama.
I believe that camp names make the counselors less intimidating to the campers.
It cracks me up to no end when one of my school friends looks through my phonebook on my cell and sees all these weird names like Boomer (my boss), Speedracer, Skittles, Harmony, Skyger, Tecko, Pantsu, Spikez, Bowie
I wouldn't change the camp name tradition for the world.
Everyonce and a while, I'll be out shopping or on a school performance trip and I'll run into campers and they'll get all excited and start calling me Jazz or heaven forbid JazzyPants..that's interesting to explain to your band director.. :p

yeha at my camp we use camp names. When I first got there as a CIT last year, I thought it was really wierd, but I actually really like it. It sure beats having like eight "melissa"s on staff or something, and they are really fun. I don't think that a new personality is necessary for them, but if you want to act differently at camp, surely that's your perogative? i mean, certainly at camp I act differently by not using innapropriate language or crude jokes or anything. When I am "Panda" i try to be a good role model, as opposed to "Miranda" just being one of the gang.

Hello...

as i enter the debate...

I have to say that i have always gone to camps with camp names, and i think that it has in no way inhibited my experiences, i find it amusing that you have to guess the counselors real names. I find that now, as a camp staff mamber that i fit more into my camp name than i ever have my real name. Camp names are a time where we get to choose who we wish to be, and not who our parents made us. I think that they enhance the camp experience because in some way camp names describe their owners more than real names ever could.

This is a consensus post of 3 staff members (SP...DB says Hi)

Also it is helpful because if there are people on staff with the same name when they have a camp name they are diverse different people.
I have never fit my real name, and neither has Dirt, but when you call us by our camp names we fit.

I completely understand why camps use camp names, but I am glad that my camp doesn't use them. I feel that I was given my real name for a reason and I am very proud of it and dislike when people give me nicknames unless there is a true meaning behind it and everyone who uses the nickname is aware of that meaning.

When our new director took his position this winter, we discussed the topic of camp names and he wanted to use them. There were 2 issues that came into play. First was that since we hadn't used them before and I have worked here for 5 years (I'm the longest returning staff), the campers all know my real name anyway. So it would work for the new counselors, but not me. Secondly, I discussed my personal feelings on nicknames (as I stated above). The director was very open to my opinions and concerns and we didn't end up using camp names.

We've never used camp names and I was talking to a friend who went to girl scount camp before and we think that camp names are a little strange. I feel like after 4 weeks of living with a kid you get to know them really well and if I were the camper I wouldn't feel like I could trust the counselor who's name I didn't really know. It's different if on the first day the counselor is like "Hi my name is Kelly but you can call me Loofa cause all my friends do" but if it's like "Hi I'm Loofa but I'm not goign to tell you my real name" then, I agree with camper.. it sketches me out! It's so important in the camper/counselor relationship to trust and respect eachother and I just don't know how that's possible if you can't even know the real name. I think it kind of discounts having a name at all..

Loofa

My camp has a rule about councilers not haveign any contack with campers outside of camp, so i can see a point for it there, and if it was like a tardition then it could be fun, but i wwouldn't like it.

camp names are great!!! this was my 9th year at camp with camp names and i love it! i was never weirded out as a camper by it (its a game to find out the counselors real names) the parents are a little weirded out at first but dont seem to have a problem with it. plus going out in public and yelling "hey firefly!" across walmart is always entertaining, then again we also play marco polo and sing grace when out in the real world. yea, its kinda hard to explain to people why my cell phone is filled with strange names, but camp names are definately awesome and are an important camp tradition.

Our camp uses camp names. Campers and staff members are required to use them. Most staff know other staff members' real names. But campers usually don't know and only find out if the staff member chooses to divulge. I LOVE the camp name thing!

wow people you seriously have to be kidding me... "lets not have nick-names because it defeats our personality" ????? what is that? first of all, we didnt pick or real names, so they cant define us too much, and secondly... as someone said much earlier in this, the people who are anti-camp names, are you using your real names as your user names on this site? i dont think so... granted i go to a girl scout camp, and apperently we are the only ones who use camp names, so i cant really see it from another point of veiw, but to be this againt nick names?... at my camp all of the counsolers have formal name tags with their picture and name on it, and even there they use their camp names... its such a tridition that even if they changed it to people cant have camp names, people would still call eachother by the names theat they have gone by for as long as they had been coming to camp... its like going to school and being asked to call your taechers by their first name... they are mr. smith and mrs. johnson not joe and amy.. just like i go to camp and call people tigger and fizz not erin and sophie... its what they are to everyone that knows them during the summer... and it has a sence of fun to have to guess at their real name all summer, its no fun to have counsolers that go by their real name.. and that is what i have to say on the situation

I work at a Girl Scout camp (the oldest in the US!! and boy are we proud of it) and we use camp names. The way that I have come to understand it over the years is that when we work with kids, we can't disclose any information about our personal lives to them (ie. relationships, age, etc) and so we say that we leave our personal lives at the gate (there's a gate at the entrance). So by having camp names, we get to be someone completely different. Plus, it gives the girls something to look foward to when they become CITs and eventually staff.

Have you ever watched a bunch of people talk themselves in circles? That's what I've been doing with this thread for the last two years.

I've worked at places that have camp names, and places that don't, and from what I can tell, it doesn't really matter either way. If a camper feels like they need to know your real name to be able to trust you, I don't think anyone feels they will turn to stone if they tell. If a parent wants to complain about you, they can make a complaint and your director will still know whose file to pull up.

It's so funny to me how heated the discussion got. Honestly, a camp name is not that different than Micheal being called Mike by his friends, Catherine being called "Kitty" by her cousins, or Sarah being called "Mom" by her chilren. It's. A. Nick-name.

if you want to tell the kids your real name you can in fact at the end of the week we do tell the girls our real names its just fun to have a silly name the girl love it and love trying to guess your real name all week i have a really weird real name so the girl never guess what it is

::looks at watch::
Yup. It's about time for this thread to come back again.

RidgeRocker, you juse made me EL OH EL! Haha.

I do what I can.

i love having a camp name- mine is another girls name to be fair but i still love being called something different. When i am at camp i am Eliza and my attitude does change, because camp is a different world too. Some where where you don't have worry about what you look like etc.

Plus at weekends we still call each other our camp names just because people introduced themselves as fluff (wow what a great camp name!!!) or whatever not by their real name.

i think its great- plus you can figure out what the kids are going to be like depending on that they call themselves. lol

Here's the famous thread. Happy reading.

Nice work Canuck!

There's one more on this that I remember but can't seem to find using search. I suggested the camp name of Princess Consuela Bananhammock and camper figured out it was a reference from Friends.

Can someone try and find it?