ACA Home Forums Canuck is a dumbass

I have stayed out of this Canuck discussion up until this point, first of all because I think it is taking over the boards, and second of all because this is an arguement that I don't really want to be involved in. However, I think it's time I make my thoughts known.

First of all, I don't like this singling out of people and then bashing them. I will say that some of your concerns are legitamite. At the same time though, taking an entire topic (which spans two web pages) and devoting it to Canuck seems really ridiculous. If his America-bashing really bothers you that much, then just ignore his posts. Once he realizes that with the way he is acting he will end up with no credibility, he'll probably be more willing to change his tune. Right now you all are fueling his fire.

Canuck, I think you are a valuable poster around here at times. However I do feel that some of your comments are out of line. There is a difference between poking a little fun and outright bashing America and it's people. I have not heard very many people make fun of Canada or Canadians, so I don't feel that we deserve this either. I would appreciate it if you could tone it down. I understand your feelings about America, but I don't think it's necessary to continually bring those feelings up, especially since they are pretty much unrelated around here.

Adam, if you've followed the history, you'd notice that the whole American bashing thing stopped a day or so ago. Northwoods insisted on me getting into his little discussion, so I gave him his bottle and did so. I was actually in a very bad position, completely lose-lose.

Busy working at camp for spring break, cant post much. But I knew that CD7 never left!!!!

Canuck, you were in a lose-lose situation because you were the one in the wrong to begin with. Funny how that works out, huh?

This should read "this conversaiton would've stopped a day or two ago but Northwoods wouldn't let my statements go unchecked".

Sorry Canuck I have not followed the entire conversation. I didn't really want to read through all 40-something posts.

Boomy, at least Northwoods was able to have a somewhat intelligent conversation. For someone with such a big head, I wonder why you couldn't do the same.

P.S. Why you starting up with me again?

Gee, what would we all do without you? Funny how, the second some of us start "checking" your comments; you start attacking the person again....at least a straw person.

Buddy, I think you need a girlfriend....bad!

Whatever, Canuck, you want your cake and to eat it too. I'm done.

How about addressing my 7:03 post before calling it quits. Here we had something legitimately challenging you, and all you could say was that her argument was no good because it was "anecdotal", while completely ignoring the value of her premises. (you learn lots when you devote your life to the LSAT for 3 months).

I didn't address that because I'm growing tired of this going nowhere and it being totally fruitless.

The evidence was anecdotal because Cuse said that a bunch of Americans who travel abroad are on tours that never leave the bus. Cuse was directly trying to discredit statistics that show the numbers of Americans who travel abroad. He/she said
As such, Cuse was putting the difference, which was several million people, was those included in 14 day tours. If you are going to try to undermine the facts using that point, you first need to show how many people are on these tours and that there aren't a significant number of non-Americans on similar tours. You can't just undermine a statistic by saying Cuse said that there are eight million websites with differing numbers, well the surely Cuse can find one that shows that there is such an overwhelming number of Americans on tour buses.

I agree with Cuse's point that Americans can stand to learn more from experience and less from the news (who IMO, are not doing their jobs these days). Yeah, some American tourists don't leave the tour buses, some don't experience the real parts of the country that they visit, but if someone is going to try to show that such a huge number of American tourists travel via tour(perhaps never leaving the bus) show me the numbers. Saying that "i sure as heck see a lot more Americans on the tour buses and fancy hotels barely experiencing anything different than their home country club" is anecdotal.

But this gets back to my original point in that most Americans are middle to lower-middle class people who cannot afford to travel abroad. They are worried about paying the rent, putting food on the table and sending their kids to college. More importantly, you could say that same thing about the average Mexican, Australian, and so on. Throughout this whole thing, we are putting more responsibility on Americans going out and learning about other cultures then we are on other societies.

Cuse was obviously being a bit fescitious by limiting her point to "Americans on tour" - but I also think we were expected to pick up on that. I think what she was saying is that Americans don't get out and experience different cultures. As for your stats - you claim that she can't undermine the stats in the manner she did. However, stats are just that - stats. Just like she looked to undermine them, you tried to base your entire argument on them. All you (claim) to have proven to me is that Americans travel the world just as much as those from other cultures.

Your statement about the average family being lower-middle class is true (although these classes are defined by the West, but that's a different issue) - but still doesn't prove my point incorrect. Americans make the choice to travel internally - surely one who can afford Mardi Gras in New Orleans could also afford Oktoberfest in Munich.

I've actually had a few discussions about this with some Yankee travellers in Europe's youth hostels (by the way, from my personal "anecdotal" experience - I ran into very few Yanks, especially when compared to Canucks, Aussies, and Kiwis) - they simply explain that the American mindset is very internally focused, and that an average American would prefer to travel from sea to sea than hop across the pond.

Canuck,
At a point in the above discussion you mentioned that you were in a "lose-lose" position...I think that this solidifies my theory that this is a competitive matter for you.

This board is not a place of competition. I say that being an EXTREMELY competitive person. You may say: "Well, aren't you trying to beat me now?" I'm not...I'm just trying to prove a point.

It's not always about "one-upping" people on this board. It's not about Canada is better than the U.S. and (whether you like it or not) it's not about you being smarter than everybody on this board.

Canuck...why do you enjoy angering people? Just curious. Perhaps it's because we embrace those things that we excel at.

You know the only thing I don't like about camp? When people start backbiting, bickering, and being unwilling to forgive or appologize. It happens at nearly every camp, every summer...some more than others.
What I have always liked about this board is that the regulars seemed to be the type of staff that could be mature and deal with things, rather than keep harping on a subject that needs to be dropped. Canuk, I understand how you feel about the U.S. but you hurt somebody's (or a few somebodys') feelings. Appologizing for that part of it is not beneath you.
Everyone else, Why is it necissary to try and prove Canuk wrong? Why do you need to keep beating this issue into the ground, when it is not going to do anything but cause a lot of tension around here? This thread never should have been made in the first place, so let it die, and move one. We are all grown-ups, right? You know that the more you push this, the more Canuk is going to push back, and you'll just keep getting angry.

Golyek, nice try, but I'm not biting. This is lose-lose because no matter what I say, I will look bad. If I try and make legitimate arguments, then you will think I'm anti-America (and those people don't belong in a country that believes in free speech, do they) - but if I try and be the mature one and ignore the situation, you guys get mad at me for not defending myself. See my problem? (I doubt it - you'll likely twist things a bit more and reach more ludicrous conclusions).

Pixie; I offended Freaky - and now Freaky and I are cool....but you're right; as long as the triumvirate keep pressing the issue, I will keep responding.

Finally Golyek - this has nothing to do with Canada-US; we've been arguing points of fact. Canada is a progressive, free nation - with all the same opportunities presented to Americans, but with much less of the downfalls of living in the US. The US, in parts, has much nicer weather. I really don't have much to argue on this matter, do I?

Try again, bud.

Interesting post... not so much in the content but in the reactions. I applaud Notherwoods & Golyek's efforts for not brushing aside important issues. I just think that the debate gets a bit side tracked.

Sometimes we need to re-frame what debates/problems are really about. This issue seems to be more about hateful speech on the message board - One could call it verging on bigoted speech. Or, as another reply stated, a problem could be combative speech that is aimed to cause anger rather than challenge/extend opinions.

It seems that many people consider Canuck's approach as an acceptable manner of interaction on this site. Why is this and how might it affect future posts? Is it ok for others to engage in negative generalizations or stereotyping of nationanalities, religions, race? Will this example lead others to post comments/post topics as freaky illustrated with this post? Is a new, more extreme, standard of posts/replies now set and accepted or will it be rejected?

Group norms are difficult change once they are set. How do you go about dealing with group norms that may be seen as negative at camp?

Canuck,
Why must you write things like "Nice try" and "Try again"...what do you gain from that? Are you fishing for a response? Nice try at what?Try what again?

Also, you didn't respond to my question at the end of my last post: Why do you enjoy angering/frustrating people? I'm curious about your motivation here.

I can't say I enjoy angering and frustrating people, it's just the way things look. I don't like the way the triumvirate thinks they can preach moral superiority without being called on it.

Couldn't you say the same thing about yourself?

Canuck,
Hey...if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck...it's a duck. Maybe in your case it's a rubber duck. I can't say the same for me because I don't choose to disagree with everybody all the time. The difference between you and me is that I will tell people when I agree with them just as much as I will tell people that I disagree with them. There is a balance there. And, when I disagree with somebody I do it in a respectful way.

The majority of the interactions that people have with you on this board involves you shooting down their ideas, often with the inclusion of some snide personal attack.

I honestly think that my problem with you isn't necessarily as much about what you say...it's more about how you say it.

You have the right to your opinions. Perhaps we could make a poll about all these ways to describe me, and see what the board thinks. By the way, have you ever heard of modesty? You could have called your last post: "Why I am great."

One thing about me is that I haven't judged anyone on here beyond who they are as a poster. You seem to readily make conclusions about the people behind the nickname.

Would you all please just Private Message each other? This is getting way too old.

Adam, why can't you just ignore the thread? I'd bet others actually find us entertaining.

Canuck,
You haven't judged anyone on this board based on who they are as a poster? On the post about fighting you called me a loser! Did you forget that? You've personally judged many people on this board Canuck and you're lying to yourself if you think otherwise.

I still stand-by my post. Though it was immature, and pointless, it obvousily was needed because there is a lot of talk of the subject.

I have no more comments on the actual subject, but this subject and the variety of subjects as a whole.

Let is not forget, though this place is designed for camp talk, counselors are a variety of people, and so the topics will be a variety of things.

For many people this is there place to post what is on there mind, which should be mainly concentrated on camp, but people should be able to have other topics also.

I like that people are starting to talk about more things then just camp. And if we were to tie it into camping, talking about different subjects helps people become better people, and so they also become better counselors.

The conversation right now I feel is not helping anyone, but then again people also need to learn some opinions can't be changed. Also, maybe some people just want to piss people off.

You are entitled to your opinion. My opinion is that some Canadians are quite envious of the US, which is why they come work here over the summer and try to cover their insecurity by bashing America. Some Canadians are also bitter that the US is a superpower while Canada has zero imporatance on the world stage, for the most part. Some Canadians are having issues keeping parts of their own silly country from seceding because of the incohesiveness of Canada as a whole, but still prefer to try to address their neighbors problems instead of dealing with their own. Some Canadians should take a hard long look in the mirror before they open their mouths again. I won't generalize those facts to ALL Canadians, but some Canadians wave their insecurity around so blatently that even a child can see it.