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Originally posted by GizmoTheWonderDog:
ahhh, well northwoods, it seems you didn't see the forest through the trees.
Says you. I would say that you are having a problem seeing the forest through the trees due the the very limited view that you have of what is going on here and on what people are saying.

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The problem I had with "some traditions suck" is not the fact that some traditions need to be changed or not, as much as it was the fact the statement "Some traditions suck" could have been presented in a batter way.
Gizmo, go back and read all the posts that have been written on the tradition argument. Go read the new subject that has emerged on this subject. I think that you'll be able to see that people have been very suscinct in their feelings on tradition. It's clear that people expanded well beyond an argument of "some traditions suck".

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I would like to point out that people have been ripping each other over this, a better more productive debate, would be "how to punish a camper" or "what is the best way to deal with kids who have AS".
Again, I guess this is why I see that you are not seeing the forest from the trees because I think that this is a big issue. I think that this points directly the concept of self identification and growth, two of the bigger benefits of camp.

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This whole camp names issue is baseless and utter bunk, after all there is no infomation showing that camp names are in fact harmful nor it there showing they are helpful.
What is the purpose of discourse, then? Should we only be talking about things that we have quantitative proof on? There are many issues that are, at one time, "utter bunk" but people choose to thing, ask and look deeper and realize that it's more then utter bunk. And just because you say it's utter bunk doesn't make it so. I'm putting this out there on the hope that either camp directors at camps with camp names or even staff at such camps think a bit deeper and perhaps pose these questions with professionals. I did and was given the input that with issues like self identification and relationship building, camp names are potentially harmful. Sorry if you are offended that I believe someone with an MSW over you.

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I was simply stating that tradition is a good argument FOR the use of camp names. Traditions like "hazing" can be harmful---after all most of us can give examples of the harmful effects of hazing taken too far.
Gizmo, you are not the only one here. And people were stating that camp names must be okay because they're a tradition. Tradition, on it's own, is not reason for anything. Tradition should not prevent people from examining that tradition.

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However no one has really shown how camp names can be harmful, they are just giving theories on how they are harmful. Oh, and just because people are talking about an issue does not mean that issue is important.
Yeah, people have presented theories. Again, do you wish that we only discuss issues with quantitative proof of? Or perhaps you'd like to be the subject cop and anything that Gizmo says is "utter bunk" should be immediately thrown out of discussion. People have given theories and perhaps some people will find it worthwhile to discuss this issue with a variety of professionals. And if you don't feel that this issue is important, there are hundreds of other ones that you can choose to care about.