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probably because she was still uncertain about what she should do, plus they weren't drunk anymore.

She didn't tell me until after the summer, so by then it was definitely not relevant anymore!

I am not sure what I would do in that situation. To be entirely honest and this will sound so bad, but at some point it will come to the factor how good of a friend I was with this person. Someone can saw, of course, I would tell on them. But, if they are your absolute best friend at camp, how hard would it be to tell the CD on them? Not only will your entire rest of your summer be ruined, your friendship too? I think that telling the CD on a matter is such a bad situation in everyway you look at it. It would matter on a lot of things... situation, age, number of instances, etc.

If I knew someone that was getting drunk and was going to be in charge of children on camp several times, no matter if she was my best friends or not, I would tell the Cd. However, it is a bad situation anyway you look at it. I know at my camp, if someone would be fired, the camp would probably suffer prehaps. The staff would be mad at you, you would lose your close friend, less staff, bad atmosphere, etc... Depends on every situation!

I think it also depends on how many other people could have told on them. If you were the only one to witness the situation, or if the CD could just go around to all the units as they sometimes do. In my interview, silly me, i said that ratting someone out would depend on if they could pin it down to me, or like 1 other person.

I think there are times when you need to report peoples actions and times when it isn't appropriate!

I had a prob with a UC who insisted on spraying bug spray inside the staff cabin, and it caused my to start having an asthma attack. To deal with it at first we spoke to her about the reason why we dont spray it inside and that didn't work so the next time i pointed out that doing made me ill and it still didn't work so I spoke to one of the AD's and it settled down! But I had to cos she had done it while I was suffering from an asthma attack that lasted 2 days!

I know that bug spray and drugs/alcohol aren't the same but if the actions of another have a negative effect on you then you need to take action! But it should be done following the camps guidelines - ie it might not be appropriate to go straight to the CD!

Well, I might sound like a horrible person, but I'd still report them, with the possible exception of long TO (like in between sessions) where they shouldn't be drinking on the grounds, per se, but there are no kids around nor will be for some time. (In which case they'd get a warning and next time I'd report them).

I just have no tolerance for drinking in those situations, even if it was my best friend. I invited a bunch of people over for a movie marathon, and I put in the invite that while they could bring and drink their own alcohol (which is an improvement for me, since normally I host dry functions), that if they had any alcohol at all and then attempted to drive, I would disown them as a friend. And I mean it. Any amount of alcohol affects your judgement, even if only a little. There is no reason why you need to drink on your TO, period. And if you do, that's a problem you need look into further, and maybe getting fired from a camping job will help you to see that.

I know I must sound like a total bitch, but I don't care. With the way things can go wrong at camp, you need people to be at their best. Besides, we're always talking campers coming first, right? How do you think it would be for a little girl who's dad is alcoholic, and has camp as her only escape from a broken home life, to smell the faint waftings of beer on a counselor?

YOu sound a bit like me - and I dont think you sound like a bitch!- when ever I had non LDS friends over for movies or whatever I dont let them smoke or drink! I hate the smell of both!

I personally dont see the need to drink at camp as even a small amount can impare your judgement! And at least at my camp if you were on camp even it was on TO then technically you were still on call and if the sirens went off you had to be fit to work. When you can have just a good time without these things I dont see the need for them - and certainly not at camp!

I have made the conscious personal choice to abstain from drinking and drugs forever. I just don't see why a little bit of 'fun' is worth risking illness, injury, or even death, especially at potentially another's expense.

Our camp has a sign on the way into camp that prohibits alcohol, tobacco, drugs, etc. on camp grounds.

Yeah, I think that it makes sense to follow procedure.

Also, it does make sense to report them. A lot of our campers have issues with their families, and I am sure that this is true more than I have experienced. So I definitely see that reporting it anytime except the weekends (that just gets into the whole tattling thing) since we have to be at a staff meeting at noon and kids don't get there til 2.

My problem with reporting it to the UC/UL is that half of them probably wouldn't see a problem with it because they just might have done it too and wouldn't report, and probably not even do anything about it. That would just put me in a bad spot with the staff and I'd end up telling the CD if they didn't do anything and then all that. Plus the whole thing of how many times are you going to tell it and the whole thing of degrees of seperation from the witness to the CD. I hope this is covered during precamp!!

Of course, if you even consider drinking or smoking on camp, then you are an idiot and shouldn't be working at camp. People need to realize that they are working with children and are their sole protector.

Howevever, I think it is just a lot easier said than done to report one of your co-workers. Would I disown one of my friends if she drank? No, I wouldn't. In my mind, there is only one thing that someone can do that will result in them losing my friendship. That thing cann't happen at camp. Soo... I am pretty safe.

It puts you in a bad position with the other staff if you report one of your co-workers. Because, as much as the CD says no one will know who reported the person, everyone will eventually find out who reported the person. It is just the nature of camp. Everyone will find out. Then, the total atmopshere of your camp and the camp staff will change. I know at my camp, with a small staff, if this would happen, there would be a very tense staff atmosphere. And that might actually have a poor affect on the children. It would cause several staff members to dislike others, which just makes the situation even worst. Additionally, since we have such a small staff, loosing a staff member is a big deal. We will have to make up for it, and it will be harder.

I guess by what I just said, it somewhat seems as I am not against drugs/alcohol. However, that is the farthest from the truth... I am very, very against it. I think that if you do either on camp or even off camp then camp is not the place for you. It is not the place for alcohol. You are talking care of someones kid. But, reporting someone involves thinking about many different things and the consequences (both postiive and negative) of that person leaving.

I agree, if you even consider drinking or smoking on camp you should not work at camp! I understand what you are saying. I am totally against drugs and totally against alcohol in the wrong place/time or if you do anythiny stupid (like drive or take care of kids) while you have alcohol or drugs in your system. Plus, smoking in the woods, bad bad bad idea!! I mean at my camp I doubt it would do anything, but at some of the camps, one cigarette that drops could start a wildfire. My camp has a lot of moisture in some areaa, but in others it could do real damage.

The only reason I know that in some areas it wouldn't do any damage is because of something that happened last summer! We actually had camp on the 4th of July and had the WF on the dock lighting off fireworks while everyone else sat on the beach and watched! There was also a free show because there were other people around the lake doing fireworks too! Well, one of the fireworks across the lake got into a tree and we saw it from our side. Well, someone from the south eastern part of the USA jumped up and was in like this ninja/surfer sort of postion and yelled that someone needed to call 911 right then! I am not sure if someone really did or how far they got in the conversation, but the fire in that tree just sort of peetered out and never really did anything. It didn't even go to another tree! or finish off the tree it was on! Gotta love the Pacific Northwest!!

You know, I find this topic interesting. I personally don't smoke or drink or anything. However, I did work at a camp that had a smoking area (away from the kids!) and allowed people to drink on their TO OFF CAMP! The town was about a 15 minute walk from camp or a 5 minute drive and had a bar that over 21's frequented quite often. Sometimes I know that the DC ACD's were there too. To my knowledge there were never any issues with people who had been drinking (most times it was on their night off or over the weekend - NOT on their 2's!). I guess it was comonplace and I didn't really think much of it. I mean the camp even had that smoking place!

We have a smoking area that the kids cant go to - it is called Betsy!

I think sometimes judgement needs to be used. The camp that I was at in 2002 had to fire about 6 people because of doing drugs on camp during session - fair enough it was wrong! and they should have been fired but I think that it should have been done at the up coming session break (only 3 or 4 days later) so that the campers didn't suffer, and the mean time they should have been restricted to be being in the staff house on their TO. Baiscally because when you fire 4 staff in one go mid session (the other 2 were fired at the start of the next session!) it impacts the entire camp - cos their roles have to be reassigned, but more importantly it upsets and unsettles the campers and makes more work for everyone else. I ended up having to take on the other day camp group and their LTG, while losing my LTG, as they were reassigned and the laundry girl became counselling staff too! It really wasn't a good situation!

We also have a smoking area. Kids really don't go there or really allowed. It is way away from everything else.

Yes, that is completely true. If at my camp, 6 people were fired. We would be in a bad, bad situation. That would be 1/3 of our camp staff. We would be in a nasty pickle. I always think that staff should be fired and removed from camp in a way that does not affect campers at all.

Definately!

I mean the previous summer there had been a situation whereby nearly half the staff should have been fired but weren't - instead they decided to punish all the staff (also VERY wrong) but you just could fire that many people and have a functioning camp!

We did have one counsellor that same summer who was fired, but it didnt have huge impact on the campers because they didn't like her, and it didn't have a huge impact on the person co - either! Cos unless I was on TO and hence away from my group the UL would be with her. Our ULs that summer were like floating staff - they did the paperwork for the unit, and cover the TO for their staff but didn't have campers of their own!

Yes, that is always a terrible idea to punish the entire staff.

Well, that is good it did not have a huge impact on the camp staff. I know that if one person get fires, it does affect our camp staff. Since we have such a very small, it doesn't only affect the actual superivison of the campers but CD/staff relations and tension, etc.

that is what our UL/UCs do. They cover TO's and make sure everything is running well with the unit. They are the next level up for camper problems like discipline and homesickness.

Yeah, we have had staff gone mi-session, but unless the counselor was leaving her campers alone or hurting them or swearing at them or something, it would be best dealt with at the end of the session. I can see how in a session more than 2 weeks long if it happened at the beginning, how it would make sense to get rid of them, but not for a short week because then you have to divide up the campers or find another staff to cover and it just doens't really work out in the kid's best interest.

Our UL and UCs are basically the same position, just the UL have more paperwork, etc. Children don't know the difference.

Our camp is quite similar with UC/UL roles, but the kids know the difference.
I think they generally are not as close with their ULs because they only see them a fraction of the day, during their patrol leader's TO, at some all-camps, and only at breakfast and dinner, if that.

that stinks to have more paperwork and have campers! I love thatwe have UCs. It also takes away some of the work of the CD so because most issues don't make it to her.

That is exactly what my position as a UL at my current camp is like! We aren't even allowed to tell the campers that we have different job titles!

oh man, there are some i will not post, but as a UL, I had a counselor who came back from TO like 2 hours late, left the first aide kits randomly around camp instead of with the girls, and when she finally got fired for not doing her job, she went in the bathroom and cried to campers so she was rehired in order to not make anymore a scene.

Oh my! When I have ever been at a camp were staff were fired they were escorted back to their cabin to pack and then escorted off of camp! And in the time they didnt have any contact with anyone else.

same here smudge. its sad that i know what our proceedure is for the firing of a staff member...

i think it is sad for any of us to know staff firing procedures - but I guess it is part of life! I am just glad that I have never been fired (although becuase of false accusations I did come very close to being fired!)

I don't know my staff firing procedure. But then again, my experience in that department is very limited, well, the firing department is non-existant for me, but the staff department is limited!