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Camp Sale Pricing #128771
02/12/18 12:03 AM
02/12/18 12:03 AM
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CampRealty Offline OP
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CampRealty  Offline OP
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I have been involved in the research of camp, school, church, and residential care centers, among other types of properties for over 10 years. I have reviewed some of the camp offerings on this site and would like to chime in a little bit in regards to what I have learned over the years. Disclaimer: I haven't visited any of the sites listed here on the ACA message boards and therefore can not comment on the pricing being offered. Disclaimer 2: I'm just throwing out my thoughts, based on my experiences. You as a buyer or seller can have vastly different thoughts and opinions, and that is OK. I provide this information solely so that sellers can have an idea of a price to sell at for quick sale. No seller should want to wait for someone to buy, all while sinking more money into a deteriorating property.

The first thing I notice when a camp or other similar special purpose property is put up for sale, it is often listed for too high of a price. The prices generally come from the current owners who think the property is worth a certain amount, sometimes based on expected rebuild cost, or a realtor that doesn't know the first thing about such properties, and has no idea how to price the property. Consider a property in Massachusetts that was originally listed at 3.2 million and ultimately sold for $800,000. It doesn't seem all that unusual to start out at far too high of a price, only to wind up selling several years later for 25-50% of original price.

Unless you are super lucky, which would probably be due to a great location, you will never be able to sell a property for the rebuild cost. Why would someone buy a used facility that would require extra renovations to meet their needs when they could build brand new, to exact specifications, for the same amount?

But what if the camp is profitable? Several years ago I viewed a camp facility listed for $1.5 million. The camp was profitable and the structures were reasonably kept up, so it should be an easy $1.5 million sale, right? Wrong. The property was completely paid for so there were no loan expenses and there was minuscule profit as is. The loan on the purchase would add considerable expense and be quite some time before the new owner would be able to recoup costs. Unfortunately, the only entities who can make such investments are large organizations, but these organizations are generally not seeking to purchase special purpose property such as camps. Most who are seeking property are not-for-profit organizations or individuals who have a dream of owning a camp, neither of which tend to have a lot of money to invest. Based on the sale prices I've seen of other similar facilities, the location of the camp, and bearing in mind that the new owner was potentially also purchasing the business, I'd expect the camp to sell for approximately $750,000-$800,000. Another facility, also listed for $1,500,000, which was based on rebuild cost, which is currently non-operational and smaller, I can't see selling for more than $300,000 or $400,000.

So how should a seller decide how much to sell for? This question varies from camp to camp. However, my best suggestion is to consider how much you paid for the camp. Prices for rural properties such as camps do not incur significant changes in value from year to year. Renovations, unfortunately, generally do not add a whole lot of value. If you happen to have a recent appraisal (not tax appraisal), you can also use that as a launching point, but if there are few comp sales in the area, even that can be hit or miss. Don't be surprised if you can only get 75%, or even 50% of appraisal value. However, if you price it right to start, you can perhaps experience a quick sale at or near asking price.

Conversely, a buyer should tread carefully when searching for a camp property. Make sure that you can break even after all operational costs, which includes loan expenses, renovations, maintenance, insurance, utilities, staffing, supplies, taxes, etc., to name just a few. Never buy without getting an appraisal. Banks will generally require the appraisal for any type of property, and won't lend to you unless you are coming in under appraisal value. As banks are generally not familiar with special purpose properties such as camps, it can be all that much harder to get a loan, so you'll probably need to come in quite a bit under appraisal for a bank to offer a property loan unless you can put in a significant down payment. If you can get owner financing on good terms, this would be ideal, however we have found most sellers are not interested in owner financing or require 40%, at minimum, up-front.

Here are some recent sales I'm familiar with, but did not represent. None of these properties were in operation at the time, so costs are for property only, not the business:

Massachusetts, 70+ acres, 28,000+ sq feet, mostly in good condition. Original asking price, $3.2 million. Final sale price, $800,000
California, 15 level acres, 19,000+ sq ft in turn-key condition with excellent road frontage and popular mountain tourist village nearby. Original asking price, $2.5 million. Final sale price, $800,000
Vermont, 14+ acres, 42,000+ sq ft in modern, turn-key condition with excellent road frontage, built in 2000, large town and popular ski slopes nearby. Original asking price, $2.8 million. Final sale price, $1,000,000
Texas, 70+ acres, campground in turn-key condition with lake, high ropes course, pool, newer buildings, etc. Original asking price, $675,000. Final sale price, $675,000
Oregon, 50+ acres 48,000 sq ft in turn-key condition. Stunning, well-maintained structures in Northwestern architecture. Original asking price circa 2010 is unknown. Price in 2016 was lowered to $1.5 million. Final sale price, $975,000

All the above, except the Texas camp, were for sale for prolonged periods of time. Had they priced the property more appropriately to start, as the Texas property was, they would not have had to incur the years of upkeep costs that go along with owning a property.





Last edited by CampRealty; 04/06/18 05:22 AM.
Re: Camp Sale Pricing [Re: CampRealty] #128776
02/15/18 02:46 AM
02/15/18 02:46 AM
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T. Edward Offline
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T. Edward  Offline
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Thank you for the input regarding pricing. Do you have a particular formula that you use when determining the asking price? For example I've been told 6 times net revenue with a possible additional amount if the acreage is large. I have also been told some sellers base it on gross revenues. For example 1.5 - 2 times gross revenue.

Re: Camp Sale Pricing [Re: T. Edward] #128779
02/17/18 09:40 PM
02/17/18 09:40 PM
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CampRealty Offline OP
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CampRealty  Offline OP
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There is no tried and true formula for camps and other special purpose properties. In general, the listing price is generally what the owner hopes to sell it for, not necessarily what the realtor expects it to sell it for. For the most part, realtors do not know what the business revenue or income is, so price is not based on those, instead more focused on appraisal and comp sales, if available. Or, in the case of some realtors, a wild guess. I tend to focus on comp sales and adjust based on things such as location, infrastructure, square footage, acreage, and condition of facilities to determine realistic prices that sellers can hope to obtain.

As many camps for sale are non-operational, or have very limited operations, and thus very limited revenue, you can't really use the 6 times revenue formula. For instance, if a camp is non-operational, it will have $0 revenue, but an asking price far higher than 6 times revenue. If limited, and bringing in, say, $50,000 a year in revenue, they still will likely want more than 6 times revenue, which would be $300,000, and definitely more than 1.5-2 times revenue. That is not to say they will be able to sell it for more than $300,000, just that they'd probably want $500,000 - $600,000. Some would even think their property is worth even way more than that and want it listed for more then $1,000,000.

Last edited by CampRealty; 03/24/18 05:07 AM.
Re: Camp Sale Pricing [Re: CampRealty] #128791
04/02/18 06:45 PM
04/02/18 06:45 PM
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NYC French Camp Offline
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NYC French Camp  Offline
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Hi,

I'd like to speak to you. What is your email please?


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