ACA Home Forums Canuck is a dumbass

If you define majority as Boomis, Golyek, and Northwoods, then I would agree.

Along with rights comes responsibilities...

what does "IMO" stand for?

No, of course you can say what you feel, i don't think that's immature at all... i just think that it's gone a bit far, that's all. Everyone has a right to express themselves but it has gone a bit far.

just my opinion.

and IMO stands for in my opinion, ct2004

No, I define a majority as the 70% of posters on this board who voted they were tired of your anti-Americanism. And the sad thing is, you still don't get it.

Seems like it's you that doesn't get it. Of course the people here wouldn't want to here about the problems of America - they're American, aren't they? That doesn't make my comments wrong (a very strong word indeed). You may notice that the only people as outspoken about my crimes are you, Golyek, and Northwoods. You may also realize that this would have died down ages ago if you would have just stopped pressing your point. What we need, Boomis, is one of those "I'm going to be the mature one and not respond" posts, as opposed to another predictable "I can't believe he doesn't get it" posts. I would be the mature one, but since it's my name being dragged through the mud, I really can't do that.

Ah, I see, we are supposed to allow you free reign to make comments that we disagree with, in a tone that is troubling (to some of us), just because we're supposed to be the bigger people. It's funny how you are claiming to have your name dragged around, yet you were the one who started name calling. See, as an individual you feel that your name is being dragged around. As an American and as someone who sees the sacrifice and good of Americans, I feel that our name and reputation is being dragged around.

The thing is that I have no problem hearing about the problems of America and discussing them. You, unfortunately, are being passive aggressive in your America bashing and aren't being substantive about the things that you'd like to discuss. What I find really humorous is that every time I counter what you have to say with a few points, you take the one point that you can somewhat rebut (ignore the other points) and then you stretch what has been said and change the meaning. I'm used to it as it's a common tactic used in the world of usenet newsgroups.

If you have something to say and are willing to debate it in regards to your feelings about America and Americans say it, but only if you are willing to have a real discussion about it. If you are going to change people's meanings and not respond to their substantive points, then move on and cut the America bashing.

Northwoods, I honestly haven't seen much substance from you either. All you do is yell and scream about how I'm America-bashing and that it's inappropriate for me to be doing here. (I bet you're lots of fun at camp). I'm quite capable of having a substantive conversation, but just because you take pot-shots such as saying "Canuck, you're using a tactic I see all the time on Newsgroups" and "Canuck, you ignore all the good points I make" does not mean you aren't doing the same thing.

Once again, this whole thing would have stopped if the three of you would have just let it all go. But instead, you felt the need to defend your country against tyrants such as Canuch....and look what happened.

Canuck, do you read what people are posting. Hey, you are free to say that I haven't posted anything of substance, but admist all the "yelling" that I apparently have done, I made the following points, all of which I feel are valid and worth discussing, but you did not respond to them. If you don't want to get into it, that's your choice, but this is why I'd like you to lay off the America bashing, because when the issues are brought up, you change the subject. And, for the record, in the several posts that I've made about this, I've questioned "it's inappropriate for (you) to be doing here" once. Oh, and please feel free to post any substantive points that you have raised that I did not respond to. Here are points that I have raised which, IMO, were substantive, but you choose not to respond to.

Cmon now Northwoods, you know Canuck would never respond to your points with anything of substance. He's a Canadian, they're all like that. :p

Here I was, Northwoods, actually thinking that you had provided good, substantive, academic arguments....but you really have just given a bunch of your own personal opinions. Classic case of the pot calling the kettle black, my friend.

Anyways, I digress....

Point #1
As a rule, Americans are a lot more internally focused than the rest of the world. You can see this when travelling, as you will notice that you are much more likely to run into an Aussie or a Canuck than you are a Yankee...even though the US population is that much bigger. The opinion of many Americans is that they might as well travel their own country instead...now I'm not saying this is wrong, but it does contribute to much global ignorance.

Point #2
Even if we adjust for purchasing power parity, you will find that the American lifestyle is much better than a large majority of the world. I don't see how you can debate this point, but I will concede that the same can be said for most Western nations. I will also concede that life ain't perfect for many Americans, but a discussion of internal economic policy is for another day.

Point #3
We've had this argument before, with you claiming that its unfair to use the term 'America' to refer to the actions of the US government. First of all, I wasn't totally against the war - but I have no problem saying that the American military kicked the crap out of Iraq - as that is what happened.

Point #4
This is pure rhetoric, dude. You listed a whole bunch of nice things that a few American citizens do. I never said that all Americans are these horrible people, even though you seem to have labeled me as thinking this. Is this how life works though - other people go out and help the world and you stay home watching football, eating potato chips, and saying how great your country is? Doesn't work for me - the people doing these things are great, but the fact that they do it hardly makes me think better of Americans as a whole.


Point #5
The USA is probably the country I feel most comfortable entering as a visitor. That being said, you guys do not treat your foreigners as well as other countries do. I'll bet that if you asked any foreign counselor, they would have a few funny stories to tell you about run-ins with Americans. It happens ALL THE TIME. If anything, this sentiment may encourage counselors to help their kids not behave in this way.


Point #6
You're getting a little overly patriotic here. Are you that proud of your country that you're not willing to even hear criticism? And Boomis - don't even try and make another anti-semitism link, there is a difference between relaying observations based on experience and blind hatred of a minority group.

One quick point....

I hope everyone understands the sticky situation I'm in. If I try and get into this conversation, then I'm accused of America-bashing. If I don't, then I'm accused of not making substantial points and dancing around the subject.

Canuk, while I basically agree with your points (though, in all fairness, the USA is a big country with drastically different areas, and it's cheaper and easier for someone like myself to travel in the US than outside it, since I'd have to drive or bus...can't afford aplane ticket. Plus, some people want to get to know their country before they explore outside of it.) I can't help but notice this is the first time you have laid out your thoughts in a way that doesn't feel like you are using American as an insult. I'm not much of a Patriot, and I am definately ill over current politics, but I only see a certain portion of Americans fitting your descrptions, just like I am sure you only see a certain portion of Canadians being snobbish, self-richeous, and boring.
I think the big problem (this is just MHO, don't anyone else get on me) is the way you put your ideas forth, in other parts of the board. Using a person's home country as an insult is hurtful and frustrating, and I think that people might get just as offended if you made fun of one of the other "internationals" by using their country as an insult. It's fine if you have an oppinion on the matter. I share them, more or less, but it's the way you toss them out there like every American is stupid and self-centered is is both ignorant and uncompassionate. I would think that as someone who seems to have reason to claim to be an exempilary staff member at a camp would have enough decency to not aggrivate an already sensitive issue.

Hmm, I think the whole thing goes both ways on this point Canuck. I have been to Quebec and have been treated fairly poorly. Have been questioned by folks in other countries that I personally was responsible for my governments actions. We have friends from other countries and all they can say is how nice the people they are that they meet in the US. Yes there are jerks in America who treat anybody from "away" badly, but there are those types everywhere. "Away" is anybody who doesn't live in the area American or not. And I have travelled to Australia and other parts of Canada and all along running into the nicest people.

I agree with a lot of what you say Canuck, it's sometimes not that we Americans don't know what our problems are it's sometimes that we don't like or want others telling us what they are. Anyway if you're ever in the Maine woods I'll get you some good micro brew.

I have to say I don't think that Canuck is dumb, but I do thin that he is a pain sometimes. We all have our days. I think that I have went this route with him one time or another.

Hmm, I thought that I had just yelled and provided no substance throughout this argument. Now that I went and picked the things out, I may have, or not. Whatever. And while these things may be my opinion, you have yet to show that they are incorrect.
This has nothing to do with the point that I raised, which is that most Americans are middle to lower-middle class trying to make ends meet. They live in the US and deal with US costs of living, but to link ot to travel, many can't afford to travel. Many Americans travel within the US because of what it offers as well as because of economics. But the thing is that your premise is incorrect. I've looked at a few websites, (www.statcan.ca, www.infoplease.com) that list travel statistics for the US, Canada, etc, and they do no not prove your point that you are more likely to bump into a Canadian abroad then an American. If you look on a percapita basis, travel rates are pretty similar.

I'm not going to go point by point because I don't have the time and this isn't going to go anywhere, but I want to deal with one more thing, which is part of the problem that I've had in discussions with you.

See, the thing is that this isn't what you said. Had you mentioned Bush or even the military establishment, I would've had no problem with what you said. But you didn't say "America", you said "Being willing to kick the crap out of Iraq hardly shows global concern" in response to the American population' global concern.

I'm not overly patriotic. I'm willing to hear criticism and discuss it. Don't go to that default when people take issue with what you say about them.

JUST BACK FOR A MINUTE.

ALWAYS STARTING SOMETHING AREN'T YOU ADAM?

Keep it up

Mark, I saw your post about midstates, and came and check this thread with the gut feeling that you couldn't resist a thread called: Canuck is a dumbass.

Leave it to CD7 to make a cameo appearance on such a redicuouls topic.

canuck is right, ameicans don't really travel at all b/c we're taught that everything you need to learn will be taught in a classroom....and the only reason some website says that americans travel just as much is because it's including the 14 day tours where you never have to leave the bus except to make your way to the 5 star marriot in the middle of varanasi....that doesn't do much for the open mindedness that it's supposed to help with, while you're more likely to run into the rest of the world at you 60 rupee guesthouse...

ah, yes, anicdotal evidence, the mother's milk of trying to prove a point without any legitimate facts.

i never do, but am i wrong????

You just provided anicdotal evidence. Your claim is that almost all the Americans who are traveling abroad are in big tour groups and don't leave the bus. First of all do you have any proof that the vast majority of American tourists travel in such groups? I'm venture to say tht you don't because, while there are lots of American tour groups (along with French, German, Canadian, etc) there are also many Americans who tour without such groups and stay at lodgings tht are not five star Marriotts. Secondly, do you have any proof that there aren't an equal number of other nationalities that travel via tour groups and stay at 5 star Marriotts when they go abroad? Your entire statement was anicdotal.

i'm not arguing the anicdotal (how the heck do you spell that word) aspect, but i don't think there is any point in any of us saying that we're experts on this subject....reading one of 8 million websites all with different #'s gives no more evidence than limited experiences...that's all any of us are really doing, giving opinions from experiences in our life, isn't it??? and i sure as heck see a lot more americans on the tour buses and fancy hotels barely experiencing anything different than their home country club, but granted, maybe i just notice more...which brings us back to the original point, ok, i forgot what the orininal point was.....american's need to be learn more from experience and less from the classroom and biased news services...i doubt anyone could disagree with that

A few notes of observation:

1. Evidence of personal opinion is not necessarily wrong.
2. Northwoods, you provided stats (although I must admit I never checked them out). What CUSE did was demonstrate a different way to interpret those stats - she essentially questioned your assertion, in a somewhat logical manner.